The Matrix Reloaded Isn't the Sequel to The Matrix.

[Redi]

:sad: Reloaded isn't The Matrix 2 and Revolutions isn't The Matrix 3.

The Matrix is The Matrix. Reloaded is Reloaded. Revolutions is Reloaded 2.

Does that make sense to anyone else? :shrug:



I'm not a Matrix fanboy, but while watching Revolutions for the first time today...I got it. The Matrix, Reloaded, and Revolutions aren't a trilogy. LOTR is a trilogy...Star Wars is a trilogy. The Matrix doesn't really have a sequal. It just has a 4 hour long follow up.

Its like the story goes from point A to C to D. So I wouldn't be surprised if there is a The Matrix 2 anime or something to explain what happens between The Matrix and Reloaded.

[John6777]

:sad: Reloaded isn't The Matrix 2 and Revolutions isn't The Matrix 3.

The Matrix is The Matrix. Reloaded is Reloaded. Revolutions is Reloaded 2.

Does that make sense to anyone else? :shrug:



I'm not a Matrix fanboy, but while watching Revolutions for the first time today...I got it. The Matrix, Reloaded, and Revolutions aren't a trilogy. LOTR is a trilogy...Star Wars is a trilogy. The Matrix doesn't really have a sequal. It just has a 4 hour long follow up.

Its like the story goes from point A to C to D. So I wouldn't be surprised if there is a The Matrix 2 anime or something to explain what happens between The Matrix and Reloaded.
Maybe it will be called The animatrix lol. Buy it , it explains alot.

John

[MattThomasM2B]

Well I can't comment on Revolutions, but the first Matrix ended on such a note that if the thing ended up bombing, there wouldn't be any loose ends. It just turns out that the movie was a success so the W. brothers went full speed on their plots and plans.


Maybe it will be called The animatrix lol. Buy it , it explains alot.JohnOr as I like to call it, the plotholeimatrix.

[Redi]

Maybe it will be called The animatrix lol. Buy it , it explains alot.

John..not really. The Flight of the Osaris(sp) is a prologue to Reloaded but its definetly not a sequal to The Matrix.


Well I can't comment on Revolutions, but the first Matrix ended on such a note that if the thing ended up bombing, there wouldn't be any loose ends. It just turns out that the movie was a success so the W. brothers went full speed on their plots and plans.

Or as I like to call it, the plotholeimatrix.Its obvious that The Matrix wasn't meant to have a sequal which is why there is such a large gap between stories. I think if there was a real sequal to the original(that takes places before Reloaded)...the series would be better off.

[Classic Speedy]

Well... the original Star Wars had a similar ending, where it could theoretically end if it wasn't successful (luckily, it was). But the difference is, the original trilogy only got better with the next two. Matrix, on the other hand... I don't think ANYBODY will argue that Reloaded or Revolutions was better than the groundbreaking original.

[JDuncan]

I think that the best thing that could've happened with The Matrix, and what I think they more-or-less expected to happen, would have been for it to have performed like Blade Runner. Too bad it didn't and we got stuck with two sequels that did much more harm than good.

[Redi]

Well... the original Star Wars had a similar ending, where it could theoretically end if it wasn't successful (luckily, it was). But the difference is, the original trilogy only got better with the next two. Matrix, on the other hand... I don't think ANYBODY will argue that Reloaded or Revolutions was better than the groundbreaking original.In terms of action: Reloaded > The Matrix. In terms of intensity...Revolutions > The Matrix.

There's a chunk of story missing...a large chunk. A chunk that shouldn't be missing. :sad: If this chunk was to be filled I think a lot of people would change their opinions of the series. But that's just my feelings.

[Deadly Messiah]

Reloaded is the best of the three, followed by the first one, then Revolutions.

[MattThomasM2B]

Reloaded is the best of the three, followed by the first one, then Revolutions.I dunno about that one. The other two didn't have that vocal masterpiece from Morpheus. *cough*

[DarkAngel]

But the difference is, the original trilogy only got better with the next two. ESB was at least as good, though I think there are still many who consider ANH better. ROTJ is generally considered a weak link. It was not better than ANH.


Matrix, on the other hand... I don't think ANYBODY will argue that Reloaded or Revolutions was better than the groundbreaking original.I preferred Reloaded to the original. I don't really understand what everybody's problem is with it. I haven't seen Revolutions yet, so I can't comment on that.

[cheungcheung]

revolutions was utter crap.

[guinaevere]

I dunno about that one. The other two didn't have that vocal masterpiece from Morpheus. *cough*
::stands up and applauds:: That whole speech felt so completely flat and uninspired. It was supposed to be inspiring or something. I think. But it failed. Miserably. It wound up being stoopid.

[sterfish]

:sad: Reloaded isn't The Matrix 2 and Revolutions isn't The Matrix 3.

The Matrix is The Matrix. Reloaded is Reloaded. Revolutions is Reloaded 2.

Does that make sense to anyone else? :shrug:



I'm not a Matrix fanboy, but while watching Revolutions for the first time today...I got it. The Matrix, Reloaded, and Revolutions aren't a trilogy. LOTR is a trilogy...Star Wars is a trilogy. The Matrix doesn't really have a sequal. It just has a 4 hour long follow up.

Its like the story goes from point A to C to D. So I wouldn't be surprised if there is a The Matrix 2 anime or something to explain what happens between The Matrix and Reloaded.
The problem with what you are saying lies in the definition of sequel. In my mind, a sequel is a movie that presents a new story that takes place after the events of the previous film chronologically. A sequel is separate from the original film and could be viewed by itself without a casual viewer being completely confused. That's the way 99% of films that follow up a first film are. By your logic, films ranging from Die Hard to X-Men, Austin Powers and so on don't actually have sequels because their follow-up films don't start immediately after the events of the last film. You don't have to know that John McClaine saved people held hostage in a highrise to get Die Hard 2. You do need to know how and why Frodo and company are on their quest to get The Two Towers. A sequel is like an encore, another chance to see characters from a previous film engaging in a something else other than what they did in the last film. There are always gaps with sequels, and many sequels try to help you fill in the blanks. If there were no gaps, it wouldn't be a sequel...it would be a long story chopped into parts. This is what LOTR is.

I would put The Matrix Movies like this:

The Matrix
The Matrix Reloaded + The Matrix Revolutions = The Sequel to The Matrix

The Matrix Reloaded starts a brand new story that follows the events of The Matrix chronologically (but not immediately) and that story cannot be complete without The Matrix Revolutions. So, the last two Matrix Movies are like LOTR except with only 2 parts. These two parts together act as a sequel to The Matrix.

[Ed Liu]

Howdy,

I really hate to be a spelling cop, but "sequ-A-l" is one of those things that triggers a completely unreasonable negative reaction in me, along the lines of using the wrong "hoard/horde" and mixing up "their/they're/there." It's "sequ-E-l."

Yes, attempting to read the Internet is often an exercise in frustration for me.

In any event, even if what you are suggesting is true, I think there would have to be a MIGHTY big and frighteningly cool story in between The Matrix and The Matrix Reloaded to make that second movie a good one. My wife and I thought the second one was so bad, we didn't bother to go see the third one in the theatres. We'll watch it someday, I'm sure.

I prefer to think of The Animatrix as the true sequel to The Matrix and pretend the 2nd and 3rd movies never happened. I had the chance to pick up both new Matrix movies this weekend at Target for $10 each, and decided that neither was even worth that much to me.

-- Ed/Ace

[Classic Speedy]

Wow, there ARE people who like the sequels better than the original. Well shut my mouth. All I can say is, the original Matrix had some truly creative ideas and the sequels felt tired in that they were the same ideas, only four years later after the initial "awe" wore off. Plus the fight scenes in Reloaded looked obviously computerized compared to the original. Shrek, anyone?

[InsoMniaC]

THAT explains all the plot holes, the confusing stories, the strange switching.....rant rant rant

[Redi]

The W. Bros. have a perfect timeline opening to fix all of THAT if the made another Matrix film. A sequel that takes place right after the original would do wonders for the series.

[Salvor]

Yay! A new "bash those inexplicable Matrix sequels" thread!! ;)

I too thought the second one was one of the worst movies I'd ever seen. And I'm not exaggerating. In terms of writing, directing, acting, it was aw-ful. And I would also like to think that Matrix Reloaded and Matrix Rev never happened... unfortunately they DID.

The only interesting story worth telling about the gap between Matrix and Matrix Reloaded would have to deal with how the Wachowski brothers totally lost it :rolleyes:

[Deadly Messiah]

:sad: Reloaded isn't The Matrix 2 and Revolutions isn't The Matrix 3.

The Matrix is The Matrix. Reloaded is Reloaded. Revolutions is Reloaded 2.

Does that make sense to anyone else? :shrug:



I'm not a Matrix fanboy, but while watching Revolutions for the first time today...I got it. The Matrix, Reloaded, and Revolutions aren't a trilogy. LOTR is a trilogy...Star Wars is a trilogy. The Matrix doesn't really have a sequal. It just has a 4 hour long follow up.

Its like the story goes from point A to C to D. So I wouldn't be surprised if there is a The Matrix 2 anime or something to explain what happens between The Matrix and Reloaded.
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight. Guess what, there already is an anime that does that, it is called Animatrix. Aren't you a little slow on the uptake. Oh, and if you don't think the Matrix is a real trilogy, than neither is Star Wars. After all, in Ep4 the Death Star is blown up, and the good guys won. It is Ep5 that leaves off to be continued. Guess what, Matrix did the same thing. LotR is the only true trilogy because it was one continuous series.

[RogueMartian]

The animatrix was almost completely a prequel. Though flight of the osiris was between matrix and revolutions.

I'm with Redi on this one. The Matrix is a good movie, anything else bearing the matrix name is part of an evil empire set up by the Wachowskis. It is a lie created for money, and nothing more.

[Redi]

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight. Guess what, there already is an anime that does that, it is called Animatrix. Aren't you a little slow on the uptake. Oh, and if you don't think the Matrix is a real trilogy, than neither is Star Wars. After all, in Ep4 the Death Star is blown up, and the good guys won. It is Ep5 that leaves off to be continued. Guess what, Matrix did the same thing. LotR is the only true trilogy because it was one continuous series.

The Animatrix is the sequel to The Matrix?

Flight of the Osaris, the one about Kid, and Enter the Matrix gave a little backstory to the events in Reloaded...but there are still large unexplained gaps.

Like at the end of The Matrix...Neo knows exactly what he must do but in Reloaded he's just as lost as he was in the first one. Something must have happened that broke his confidence, right? Seems like "The One" learning he's "The One" but then not being sure he's "The One" would be a really big landmark within the plot.

Smith somehow came back a rogue who somehow learned to copy himself. He sure couldn't do that in the first one...I wonder what happened. He went into exile but he was destroyed in the original. Something must have brought him back.

Where'd Link come from because at the end of The Matrix, Tank was still alive. So Tank died...how? Was there a big battle that killed him?

I'm not saying that the series sucks. But I am saying that W. Bros could have did a better job in bridging the gap between movies. Maybe if there wasn't a half an hour sex scene/rave and constant pointless speeches they would had more time to fill in gaps in Reloaded?

BTW. The Star Wars films I were referring to are the prequels. However, I just said Star Wars so it wasn't all that clear. But even still the gap between Star Wars and ESB isn't as large as the one between Matrix and Reloaded.

[Ed Liu]

Howdy,

It is possible to have a debate and argue without resorting to personal remarks, or calling people idiots.

So cool it.

-- Ed/Ace

[Bird Boy]

To reinforce what Ace said--cool your jets guys. This is a petty thing to get warned over, so keep it nice in here.

And don't insult each other either.

-BB

[Starflyer 58]

Heeere we go again.

I'm getting into a habit of just pulling out this David Poland quote whenever the subject comes up.

"I would make the argument that the Wachowskis deserve a pat on the back for taking $400 million or so of Warner Bros.’ money to make an esoteric, audience-unsupportive, quasi-religious pair of sequels to, perhaps, the most audience-accessible film of the modern era."

Just because the Matrix sequels ended up being alternative pieces of entertainment instead of the mainstream action flicks they were marketed as doesn't mean "the Wachowski brothers lost their minds!!!" Now that's the copout right there.

If the seqs weren't for you... great! You're free to continue enjoying the original. Who's gonna stop you? But for those of us who actually dig where this trilogy went, can you please park the bashing bandwagon? The trilogy's over. Donewith. Move on, I beg you.

[Jimbo]

In a true trilogy, you basically introduce the characters in the first act; put said characters in the worst possible situation in the second act, and the final act is the resolution to the situation, whether it be good or bad.

I would consider "Star Wars: Original"; "Star Wars: Prequels"; "Back to the Future"; "The Matrix"; "The Godfather" and "Lord of the Rings" all examples of a true trilogy.

The arguements that "Reloaded" and "Revolutions" were released 4 years after the original, that they were basically one big film split in two...ala Back to the Future...doesn't separate them from the original, nor make them a separate trilogy or duology (or whatever you call it).

For me, "The Animatrix" was a side project that connects to the trilogy, adds some insight, and yet doesn't disrupt what is occurring within the films. The same can be said of "Star Wars: Clone Wars". For example, you knew that Trinity wasn't going to be killed in "The Detective" short.

The Matrix, and most of these movies, with the exception of "Lord of the Rings", were filmed to be stand alone movies, as studios are lax to commit to a trilogy if the first film flops.

Just look at "Battlefield Earth", which was supposed to have had at least one more sequel, since the movie was only the first half of the book. It bombed at the box office, and you never heard a thing about it ever again.

[Nightwing]

I don't think ANYBODY will argue that Reloaded or Revolutions was better than the groundbreaking original.
I agree, but the one point I always try to send home in the battle of the universe that arises whenever the subject of sequels comes up is that I don't think that's the movie creators' fault. I think it's our fault, as the viewers and fans.

The experience you're looking for when you go to the movie theater is one you've never experienced or felt before. When an excellent movie does that, it's going to be hard to top, because in a sequel it isn't going to be your first encounter anymore. With the Matrix, that happens even moreso because of the incredibly unique story and special effects. So what can protect the viewer from insisting their bored with something they have seen before in some shape or form? In my opinion, it's the characters. If the characters and a story are compelling enough, you'll find yourself right their with them, alongside their anguish, pain, fear, and confusion, instead of being on the opposite extreme simply saying, "oh he's the main character! Of course he's gonna make it through this! :p"

It's not a bad thing, exactly, particularly with the example the Matrix gives. I just think it's something we should be conscious of, because that way we won't be so bitter and cynical about the subject of sequels.

Me, I was following the story of the Matrix movies, and even though I wouldn't have minded to let the franchise rest after the first one, I like where it went, and how it ended. In fact I even said that in 1999 at the end of the first movie. Sometimes what the "oh he's the main character of course he's gonna make it through this" viewer sees as an intentional opening for a sequal, the viewer type on the other extreme sees as simply a sign of the story saying how life will go on.

[HellCat]

The Animatrix is the sequel to The Matrix?

Flight of the Osaris, the one about Kid, and Enter the Matrix gave a little backstory to the events in Reloaded...but there are still large unexplained gaps.

Like at the end of The Matrix...Neo knows exactly what he must do but in Reloaded he's just as lost as he was in the first one. Something must have happened that broke his confidence, right? Seems like "The One" learning he's "The One" but then not being sure he's "The One" would be a really big landmark within the plot.

Smith somehow came back a rogue who somehow learned to copy himself. He sure couldn't do that in the first one...I wonder what happened. He went into exile but he was destroyed in the original. Something must have brought him back.

Where'd Link come from because at the end of The Matrix, Tank was still alive. So Tank died...how? Was there a big battle that killed him?

I'm not saying that the series sucks. But I am saying that W. Bros could have did a better job in bridging the gap between movies. Maybe if there wasn't a half an hour sex scene/rave and constant pointless speeches they would had more time to fill in gaps in Reloaded?

BTW. The Star Wars films I were referring to are the prequels. However, I just said Star Wars so it wasn't all that clear. But even still the gap between Star Wars and ESB isn't as large as the one between Matrix and Reloaded.
Probably wrong here, but didn't The Oracle say the system brought Smith back to balance out the humans having Neo? Makes sense to me- the machines probably thought he'd be perfect for the job since he wanted revenge, yet didn't realise how far gone he was.

As for Tank, I think that was the actor who played him getting a big head which forced them to replace him since they wouldn't give him what he wanted. Doubt that makes you wanna go into specifics about his character's death.

[Deadly Messiah]

The Animatrix is the sequel to The Matrix?

Flight of the Osaris, the one about Kid, and Enter the Matrix gave a little backstory to the events in Reloaded...but there are still large unexplained gaps.

Like at the end of The Matrix...Neo knows exactly what he must do but in Reloaded he's just as lost as he was in the first one. Something must have happened that broke his confidence, right? Seems like "The One" learning he's "The One" but then not being sure he's "The One" would be a really big landmark within the plot.

Smith somehow came back a rogue who somehow learned to copy himself. He sure couldn't do that in the first one...I wonder what happened. He went into exile but he was destroyed in the original. Something must have brought him back.

Where'd Link come from because at the end of The Matrix, Tank was still alive. So Tank died...how? Was there a big battle that killed him?

I'm not saying that the series sucks. But I am saying that W. Bros could have did a better job in bridging the gap between movies. Maybe if there wasn't a half an hour sex scene/rave and constant pointless speeches they would had more time to fill in gaps in Reloaded?

BTW. The Star Wars films I were referring to are the prequels. However, I just said Star Wars so it wasn't all that clear. But even still the gap between Star Wars and ESB isn't as large as the one between Matrix and Reloaded.
Actually the gap between M and MR was about a year. SW to ESB was 4 yrs.

[Starflyer 58]

Like at the end of The Matrix...Neo knows exactly what he must do but in Reloaded he's just as lost as he was in the first one. Something must have happened that broke his confidence, right? Seems like "The One" learning he's "The One" but then not being sure he's "The One" would be a really big landmark within the plot.
First of all, at the end of the Matrix when Neo says "I'm going to show these people what you don't want them to see..." he's not talking about some big, intricate plan he's about to execute. He's simply talking about the action he performs moments later: flying up into the sky in front of hundreds of people living out their 1999-lives.

In Reloaded, Neo doesn't doubt he's the One. He just doesn't know what he's supposed to do with that title. It's like, "Okay, so I'm supposed to save the world... how?" To add to that, he keeps having dreams about the woman he loves dying pretty violently. What's it all mean? He's trying to piece it together, but it doesn't fit. Not until midway through Revolutions does he finally say the words "I know what I have to do." And the wonderful thing is that he says this without the Oracle's guidance or any outside influence. It's finally his own choice, his own decision, free from all the systems of control that plagued him before.

[Redi]

Actually the gap between M and MR was about a year. SW to ESB was 4 yrs.Large gap in timeline...yes.
Large gap in storyline...no.

Everything naturally progressed. Luke continues to be a rebel. Bad guys regroup. Not that big of a leap. There wasn't a lot of guess work. With The Matrix its mostly guess work between The Matrix and Reloaded.

W. Bros didn't do a good job writing Reloaded and filling in the space between a movie that wasn't intended to have a sequel...and its sequel. Period. I'm not saying the movie sucked. But it didn't show any type of natural progression that didn't have to be explained.

Its blantly obvious that The Matrix wasn't intended to have sequels. And I'm starting to believe this woman who claims she wrote the original really did in fact write the original. The movies do a horrible job of connecting to one another.

Empire Strikes Back connects with Star Wars...look at the title. That's all you need to know going into the film after the first one. Bam! Empire is going to kick booty in the film. Cliff hanger. Bam! Return of the Jedi. Lucas and crew created tight trilogy even though the first one ended with a real ending.

Reloaded on the other hand is um...well, its like The Snorks season that doesn't take place under water. Its like the Bonkers season with the female cop and new boss. It just starts over and vaguely links itself to the original.

I'm not saying the film series sucked. I like it. I'm just saying that maybe Reloaded should have been called The Matrix: Reboot?. :moon:

[DarkAngel]

Its blantly obvious that The Matrix wasn't intended to have sequels. Hmm. I don't know. I just don't see that. I didn't feel there was any gap of unexplained material between "The Matrix" and "Reloaded". It made sense to me and seemed to flow just fine.

After I saw the first movie, I just assumed there would be sequels, because it just didn't seem complete. There was definitely closure in that Morpheus had found "The One", but as far as the machines dominance over humanity, nothing had been resolved (like how nothing had changed after ANH in terms of the Empire's rule over the galaxy).

I expected that we would see Neo and company attempt to free humanity and defeat the machines and that's exactly what they were after in "Reloaded".

I have a hard time believing that the Wachowski's had no intention of doing sequels. There was clearly story left to be told. I wouldn't have been satisfied with only "The Matrix". I liked "Reloaded" a lot. I'm planning on renting "Revolutions" tonight, so hopefully I'll be able to comment on it soon.

[Starflyer 58]

DarkAngel: rock on! Hope you enjoy it. It's my personal favorite of the three.

Redi: Watch "The Matrix Revisited".

Even when filming their first movie, "Bound", the Wachowskis were constantly talking about this pet scifi trilogy idea they had called "The Matrix", and when they finally pitched it to WB their first words were "well, we have this trilogy..." and the WB exec said "let's just try one first". ;)

I think the ending to the first Matrix, with Neo's speech, confused a lot of people into thinking that Neo had enacted some master plan for saving the human race, and everything was going to be spiffy. He was ONLY referring to the action he was to about perform once he hung up the phone: flying up into the air in front of hundreds of people WAS showing them "a world without you; without borders or boundaries, without rules or controls... where anything is possible" yada yada.

It's funny how the original ending speech (http://www27.brinkster.com/alleykat/oriending.htm) has so much in line with what eventually happens in Revolutions. It was changed because test audiences didn't know the world "chrysalis", and because the W's didn't know if they would be able to do sequels yet, so they had to make the ending a bit more clear.

(One of the things I love about Revolutions is how Neo and Smith crash right at this exact location in the MegaCity during the Superbrawl to form the crater - you can even see the phone booth before they impact. Mmm. Ascension and descension.)

[Marvel_Knight]

OK, I just skimmed through everyone's post so sorry if I repated something or other. I am a fan of "The Matrix" films (if you knew me personally, you'd know) so get some popcorn and read this. "The Matrix" (the best one) kicked things off. This wasn't originally supposed to have a sequel, but it was such a hit they decided to make it a huge story. Then comes "The Animatrix". I haven't seen it yet, but it introduces The Kid and Tank, some other stories about the first Matrixs (I think) and "FFotO" begins things for "Reloaded" and "Enter the Matrix". "Enter the Matrix" is what happens to characters Niobe and Ghost during the events of "Reloaded". "Reloaded" is the beginning of the end. 6 months after the 1st film. The return of Smith, the introduction of the Merovingian and the Persephone, and the love story of Neo and Trinity. "Revolutions" (my least favorite) is showing the war between machines and the humans. The deaths of major characters. The final fight between savior Neo and Smith (with as much power as Neo). It ends with (SPOILERS) the humans cheering and the Oracle looking up at the sunrise that a little girl "made" for Neo (END SPOILERS) Did that help at all?

[Starflyer 58]

"The Matrix" (the best one) kicked things off. This wasn't originally supposed to have a sequel, but it was such a hit they decided to make it a huge story.
It was always a "huge story".

What, don't believe me?


Freethinker: Did you know right away that it would be a trilogy?

WachowskiBros: We knew we had too much material for one movie.

SOURCE: 1999 Online Chat with Larry and Andy Wachowski (http://whatisthematrix.warnerbros.com/cmp/larryandychat.html)

[Redi]

---I like the Matrix Films. I just don't feel that The Matrix connected well to Reloaded. I don't feel that people who aren't willing to commit to playing through a video game, seeing the entire Animatrix, and watching Revisited should get a Swiss Cheese storyline in Reloaded.

Yeah, its great business and an innovative way to tell the story but its still bad story telling. Extra material shouldn't have plot points and character developements that most casual fans aren't going to see. Extra material should be just that...extra...add on. Like Clone Wars on CN...I'm pretty sure Episode 3 won't exclude people who didn't watch Clone Wars and will get them up to speed with everyone else.

I'm willing to bet that most people who don't like Reloaded and Revolutions don't like it because of the plotholes between films.

[Simpler Simon]

---I like the Matrix Films. I just don't feel that The Matrix connected well to Reloaded.

I'm willing to bet that most people who don't like Reloaded and Revolutions don't like it because of the plotholes between films.
Were there plot holes between the original and Reloaded? I mean yeah, some time passed, but I don't think anything major happened - all Neo and the others did was go around freeing people from the Matrix. It's the same as the transition between the original Star Wars and Empire Strikes Back. ESB takes place three years later, but all the rebels did in between was fight some minor skermishes and jump from base to base. None of the stories told in the comics and novels of that time period have really had any major importance.

So, my take on this debate (mind you I haven't seen Revolutions yet, so I'll base this purely on Reloaded):

Was Reloaded a good sequel? Yes
Was Reloaded a good story? Yes
Was Reloaded a good movie? No

I understand what the W. Brothers had in mind, and they really managed to expand on what the Matrix mythos was: we saw Zion, we got to see the Oracle was actually a "rogue program", we got to see more of the workings of the Matrix, and the revelations really turned everything around. The core characters were also expanded upon, and new ones were thrown into the mix. This fits the requirements of a good sequel and a good story.

However, the execution was off. The script was badly paced, with great but pointless action scenes. The dialogue was needlessly convoluted. And worst of all, it didn't feel like a complete movie. Attack of the Clones, Two Towers - those were middle chapters too, but they had fairly distinct ends. Reloaded just abruptly ended. The payoff wasn't that great, and the significance of Bane (Smith) on the table beside Neo didnt hit me, since I'd been too worn out by the freeway chase and trying to figure out what the architect said.

I agree with everyone who's said Reloaded and Revolutions should be considered "one" sequel to the Matrix. I think that's the best way to look at these films.

[DarkAngel]

---I like the Matrix Films. I just don't feel that The Matrix connected well to Reloaded. I don't feel that people who aren't willing to commit to playing through a video game, seeing the entire Animatrix, and watching Revisited should get a Swiss Cheese storyline in Reloaded.I never found Reloaded to possess a "Swiss Cheese storyline" and I haven't seen any of the Animatrix or Revisited, and have not played Enter the Matrix.

[Redi]

I'm not the only one...

INT. WELL-LIT, NON-NOIR WHITE ROOM

KEANU enters a white room, the walls of which are covered
in monitors. A chair spins around to reveal THE EXPLAINER.

KEANU REEVES
Who are you?

THE EXPLAINER
I am The Explainer. I designed the
matrix screenplay. Unable to
decently explain the convoluted plot
well, I have resorted to putting
myself here in the final act and
having you ask all of the questions
the audience wants to ask.
(dramatic pause)
You must begin by asking your own
questions then gradually switch to
asking those of the audience, in
order to not make this scene any
more awkward than it already is.
Concordantly, while your first
question may be the most pertinent,
you may or may not realize it is
also the most irrelevant.

KEANU REEVES
Why am I here?

THE EXPLAINER
Many years ago, shortly before the
success of Speed, you sold your soul
to the devil in exchange for a
promise of notoriety that your
piss-poor acting skills do not
deserve. This series is the
actualization of this promise.

KEANU REEVES
What was the Osiris? And who was
that kid in zion who kept pestering
me?

THE EXPLAINER
You will find the answers to these
questions by purchasing The
Animatrix, a collection of nine
animated shorts from some of Anime's
top directors.

KEANU REEVES
Alright. Well, what was that crap
Glora said about vampires and
werewolves? And how did Jada Pinkett
Smith get to Laurence Fishburne
during the car chase? And what the
hell happened during the power plant
takeover climax that-wasn't?

THE EXPLAINER
You will find the answers to those
questions by purchasing the Enter
The Matrix game, available for
Windows, Playstation2, Xbox, and
Gamecube. Enter the Matrix features
awesome gunplay and spectacular
martial arts that bend the rules of
the Matrix. This game isn't just
set in the Matrix universe--it's an
integral part of the experience,
with a story that weaves in and out
of The Matrix Reloaded. Enter the
Matrix is the story behind the
story.


http://ter.air0day.com/index.php?script=matrixreloaded

[ClockStomper]

I didn't think the last two made any sense (wherehas the first one never violated it's own continuity and makes sense, ven if it takes you a couple of watches.). Neo can use his powers in the Real World...for no reason? Why dosen't Neo use his Matrix powers to their full extent? Why would 100 Smiths be a bother when you can bend reality/code?

The sequels aren't even that clever (I liked the neat touches that you see upon rewatching the first film) or engrossing (I turned on a TNT presentation of the first film for bacground noise and I couldn't look away...wherhas I kept checking my watch with the other two. It seems not many events/plot-points were in the last two, just lots of looooooong action scenes for filler.) The Whacowski's just had fun with the budget and didn't care about storytelling this time around.

I'm not sure Enter the Matrix gels very well with the movies continuity wise (Niobe should have known a lot more and could have been a greater help if she had mentioned many of the things she had seen in the game, most of which takes place before the movie starts, but it's pretty obvious the game was made after the fact.) And the Animatrix refrences are pretty superficial ("The Kid" is useless in Reloaded and only hurts the good character we meet in Animatrix.)

[ElBarto]

You guys are all wrong about the order it goes
Animatrix
Matrix
reloaded
enter the matrix
revolutions

[Starflyer 58]

Oy vey.

This discussion pains me.
Maybe I just care too much.

The sequels make beautiful sense, once you get your head fully around them; they say so. much. more than the first one on its own ever could.

I wrote this little tangent (http://www27.brinkster.com/alleykat/struggle.htm) soon after seeing Revolutions, and I still don't feel like I've said the half of it.

[DarkAngel]

I wrote this little tangent (http://www27.brinkster.com/alleykat/struggle.htm) soon after seeing Revolutions, and I still don't feel like I've said the half of it.Some great thoughts, Starflyer. I saw "Revolutions" last night for the first time and I'd say 'beautiful' is a great word to describe it (and the trilogy as a whole). Not just in terms of the visuals, but in the way the story comes together. There's a lot of great things to pick up on and I'm sure there's a lot I haven't considered yet.