OT: Who's The King Of Slapstick Comedy?

[Nelson]

LOL..Now this is the correct thread!

I originally wanted to post this on the entertainment board, but considering that the members over on that board either don't care about classic comedy nor have never heard of these two men, I thought that since you guys love and respect classic comedy I would post it right here.

So for the poll.....

Who do you consider to be the "KING" of the classic slapstick comedy and explain why?

[rodney]

Hal Roach hands down, though mostly for his sound material. From Charley Chase to Our Gang the stuff bearing his name was always the best.

[bigshot]

For slapstick, you can't beat the Stooges.

See ya
Steve

[rodney]

See, I'm funny. I'd take Laurel and Hardy (or even Abbott and Costello) over the Stooges any day.

[Nelson]

It very hard decison for me to make, cause I always admired and loved both men's film work and what they done for film comedy and I have to give Sennett a very slight edge over Roach in this topic and here's why.

Sennett(like Roach) had a very keen eye for talent and of course, Sennett was the man that discovered Charlie Chaplin in 1912 during a trip to New York City when Chaplin was performing in Vaudeville tour and Sennett needed a replacement when Ford Sterling left the studio and offered Chaplin a contract.Sennett also discovered some of the other great comedians, including Roscoe "Fatty" Arbuckle, Mable Normand (for whom Sennett and Normand were dating in real life), Chester Conklin, Marie Dressler, Ben Turpin, Al St.John, Gloria Swanson, Harry Langdon, Andy Clyde, Billy Bevan and The Keystone Cops.

Regarding Roach, he got his start in acting in the early 1910s as an extra and found his true calling behind the camera.There was one comedian that Sennett didn't see any potential in this man and was none other than Harold Lloyd and what was Sennett's loss, was Roach's gain with Harold.Lloyd was Roach's "first" comedy superstar and put Roach on the map and became Sennett's main rival in the late 1910s.Soon after Roach brought the "Our Gang" comedies to the silver screen and discovered Stan Laurel, Harry "Snub" Pollard, Themla Todd, Charley Chase and Oliver Hardy and Roach was the man behind the pairing of Laurel & Hardy.

I always thought that both Sennett and Roach had the best directors in film comedy....Sennett had, Del Lord, Jules White and a young man named Frank Capra.Roach had James Parriott, George Stevens(who would later direct such great classics, such as Gunga Din and Giant) and Chase himself would even direct several shorts for Roach.Del Lord would later go on to direct "The Three Stooges" while Jules White created the excellent early sound series "The Dogville Comedies" for MGM in 1929.In terms of better comedy, you would have to go with Sennett in the silent era and Roach in the sound era and I believe that sound killed the fast paced slapstick thrills that made Sennett's comedies famous during the 1920s and that's I Roach made the better comedies during the sound era and Sennett had the better comedies in the silent era.

Some members might not know this, but when Walter Lantz packed up and headed to California in the late 1920s, Lantz's first job was working for Sennett as a gag writer that another vertran of the animated scene brought Lantz to the Sennett Studio was none other than Pinto Colvig.Sennett was always great when it came to looking for great talent and when Frank Capra left Sennett to direct feature legnth films over at Columbia, Sennett saw the potential Lantz had and offered Lantz a chance to direct live action comedy, but Lantz passed on the offer and left to take over the Oswald The Lucky Rabbit series at Universal in late 1928, which by the way Lantz did some animated sequences in several of the Sennett two reelers.

The one thing that I love about the Sennett comedies on the 1920s, was that they had a cartoony look to them and most of the famous animators always looked to the Sennett and Roach comedies for insperation for their cartoons.

[DarthGonzo]

Roach had James Parriott, George Stevens(who would later direct such great classics, such as Gunga Din and Giant) and Chase himself would even direct several shorts for Roach.
Dont forget the two excellant Rascal directors: Bob McGowan and Gus Meins.

[JDWeil]

It very hard decison for me to make, cause I always admired and loved both men's film work and what they done for film comedy and I have to give Sennett a very slight edge over Roach in this topic and here's why.

Sennett(like Roach) had a very keen eye for talent and of course, Sennett was the man that discovered Charlie Chaplin in 1912 during a trip to New York City when Chaplin was performing in Vaudeville tour and Sennett needed a replacement when Ford Sterling left the studio and offered Chaplin a contract.Sennett also discovered some of the other great comedians, including Roscoe "Fatty" Arbuckle, Mable Normand (for whom Sennett and Normand were dating in real life), Chester Conklin, Marie Dressler, Ben Turpin, Al St.John, Gloria Swanson, Harry Langdon, Andy Clyde, Billy Bevan and The Keystone Cops.

Regarding Roach, he got his start in acting in the early 1910s as an extra and found his true calling behind the camera.There was one comedian that Sennett didn't see any potential in this man and was none other than Harold Lloyd and what was Sennett's loss, was Roach's gain with Harold.Lloyd was Roach's "first" comedy superstar and put Roach on the map and became Sennett's main rival in the late 1910s.Soon after Roach brought the "Our Gang" comedies to the silver screen and discovered Stan Laurel, Harry "Snub" Pollard, Themla Todd, Charley Chase and Oliver Hardy and Roach was the man behind the pairing of Laurel & Hardy.

I always thought that both Sennett and Roach had the best directors in film comedy....Sennett had, Del Lord, Jules White and a young man named Frank Capra.Roach had James Parriott, George Stevens(who would later direct such great classics, such as Gunga Din and Giant) and Chase himself would even direct several shorts for Roach.Del Lord would later go on to direct "The Three Stooges" while Jules White created the excellent early sound series "The Dogville Comedies" for MGM in 1929.In terms of better comedy, you would have to go with Sennett in the silent era and Roach in the sound era and I believe that sound killed the fast paced slapstick thrills that made Sennett's comedies famous during the 1920s and that's I Roach made the better comedies during the sound era and Sennett had the better comedies in the silent era.

Some members might not know this, but when Walter Lantz packed up and headed to California in the late 1920s, Lantz's first job was working for Sennett as a gag writer that another vertran of the animated scene brought Lantz to the Sennett Studio was none other than Pinto Colvig.Sennett was always great when it came to looking for great talent and when Frank Capra left Sennett to direct feature legnth films over at Columbia, Sennett saw the potential Lantz had and offered Lantz a chance to direct live action comedy, but Lantz passed on the offer and left to take over the Oswald The Lucky Rabbit series at Universal in late 1928, which by the way Lantz did some animated sequences in several of the Sennett two reelers.

The one thing that I love about the Sennett comedies on the 1920s, was that they had a cartoony look to them and most of the famous animators always looked to the Sennett and Roach comedies for insperation for their cartoons.

Lantz worked at both Sennett's Keystone Studios and at Hal Roach (which is where he met Pinto Colvig). Lantz migrated to the west coast when Bray quit the theatrical field in 1928.

[ScrewyWabbit]

You can't beat the Stooges. They are the Slapstick Kings.

[bigshot]

I've always found that the humor in Laurel & Hardy is usually derived from personality more than slapstick. Although the one where they were Christmas Tree salesmen was pretty good and violent...

Perhaps I'm misinterpreting the intent of the thread... The King of Slapstick is different to me than The King of Comedy. Given the choices in the poll, I would say of the two Sennett is the King of Slapstick and Roach the King of Comedy.

See ya
Steve

[bigshot]

Grim Natwick told me that Lantz worked at Roach, but he didn't mention Sennett. Did Lantz do the same sort of animation gags (bubbles and bees) for Sennett, or was he strictly a gag writer?

See ya
Steve

[Pietro]

Grim Natwick told me that Lantz worked at Roach, but he didn't mention Sennett. Did Lantz do the same sort of animation gags (bubbles and bees) for Sennett, or was he strictly a gag writer?
As far as I know, Lantz worked as a gag writer for Sennett only for a short period between leaving Bray and working for Mintz's Oswald cartoons.

-Pietro:daffy:

[Nelson]

Lantz indeed worked as a gag writer for Sennett and I also believe that Lantz was Del Lord's understudy as well.There is no doubt in my mind, that Lantz could have been a great comedy director in live action comedy, if he would have chosen that profession and that just tells you on how much confidence Sennett had in Lantz.

I personally believe that with the advent of sound killed Sennett's wild pace style of comedy and if you see some of Sennett's early sound shorts, you'll notice on how sound slows down the fast paced action of a Sennett comedy, especially when it comes to a wild chase throughout the streets that was so popular in the 1920s in a Sennett two reeler.

When you watch any Roach "talkie" today, it's not just the slapstick gags that is funny, it's the enduring personality of the comedians that makes them so popular with the likes of Laurel And Hardy and Charlie Chase.With sound, Roach was able to add more series to his roster, with Harry Langdon, The Boyfriends, Pitts & Todd and The Taxi Boys, where Sennett didn't have that many series in the 1930s.

The best sound series that Sennett made during the early 1930s, were the ones featuring W.C. Fields, including one of Field's best two reelers, "The Dentist" (1932) for Sennett.Another thing to keep in mind that even Roach had a distribution deal with MGM during the sound era, Sennett was relasing his comedy shorts through Pathe, Paramount and Educational all from 1929 to 1933.

So here's one way to look at this topic...

The King of silent comedy was Sennett

The King of sound comedy was Roach

[bigshot]

Here's a story I heard about how Lantz got into Universal. I don't know how true it is... It's been a while since I read Lantz's book, but it's a good story.

Lantz had come west to work for Roach (and Sennett too as I learn from this thread) and had hit hard times. Between jobs in the movies, he took a job as a chauffer. One of his regular customers was Carl Lemmle... he'd drive Lemmle to his weekly poker game with other studio hotshots. Lantz and Lemmle got chummy, and pretty soon Lantz was in on the poker game instead of waiting out in the car.

One night Lemmle casually mentions at the game that he just bought out the rights to Oswald. But he didn't know any animators and had no idea what he was going to do with the character. Lantz's ears perked up, and he proceeded to tell him about his work in New York. The next day, Lantz quit his job as a chauffer and went to work at Universal, and the rest as they say, is history...

See ya
Steve

[Patrick McCart]

It's really hard to say....

Mack Sennett helped launch the careers of Roscoe "Fatty" Arbuckle and Charlie Chaplin.

Hal Roach launched the careers of Harold Lloyd and Laurel & Hardy..

I'd have to say it's even.

[shogunthethird]

Again, the kings of Slapstick are Moe, Larry and Curly

[Frank Flood]

In the 1926-27 season, Bray Productions began releasing two reel comedies on a states rights basis that were produced by a variety of folks, in addition to his cartoon series being released through FBO. Walter Lantz came out west when the Bray animation studio in New York closed down. He appeared as a comedian in at least one of the Bray live action comedies, Barnyard Rivals, released in early 1928.

Presumably, he showed up at Hal Roach Studios after this, which makes sense since many cartoonists and their ilk migrated to Roach. Later, Lantz is credited as a writer on two Sennett shorts - not as a director or assistant director - both released in early 1929. This puts him at the Sennett Studio in mid-to-late 1928. Joe Adamson's Lantz biography says he also worked at Universal City on the Gumps Comedies. These live-action two reelers were based on the popular comic strip and were produced by Sam Van Ronkel, who I believe was related to studio owner Carl Laemmle. From the Gumps, he ended up "helping out" the post-Disney Winkler Studio turning out Oswalds. In 1929, Universal booted all of their outside short subject producers, and brought all comedy and cartoon production in-house. Walter, already a Universal employee, was at the right place at the right time.

And as to Sennett versus Roach? Sennett set the pattern of a comedy-only studio, with a stable of recognizable and popular comedians, and a wild cartoony slapstick style, all done under a well-known brand ("Keystone" and later "Sennett").

Most of the other successful comedy shops spun variations on these themes. Al Christie went toward light and polite, situation comedy with a bit of slapstick thrown in. Jack White - Jules White's older brother - made the popular Lloyd Hamilton and Mermaid Comedies, more slapstick than Christie and in many ways smart, funny comedies. Hal Roach and Harold Lloyd started together in the Sennett mode, and gradually developed a more sophisticated style that still had plenty of thrills and slapstick. Roach never lost the knack of combining crash-bang-boom with subtlety and sophistication. And hiring talents like Dick Jones, Leo McCarey, Charley Chase, Robert McGowan and Stan Laurel didn't hurt.

Sennett also evolved, however, and his Harry Langdon shorts in the mid-20's for example, are as good as anyone has ever done.

Then sound hits, and most of the comedy industry just freaks out. Sennett, Christie and White all fired most of their talent (comedians and directors) and tried to start over with a combination of stage actors/directors/writers and silent comedy veterans. It didn't work, and these veteran producers made some really crummy comedies.

Roach may have been lucky in that Laurel, Hardy, Chase and the Gang had the right voices for their screen characters, but then again, he was smart in having them continue doing what they had been doing.

And the Sennett style? The best practitioner in sound comedies was none other than Jack White's younger brother Jules White. His comedies at Columbia are well written and they move, move, move. If you can, compare some of the stiff things that comic Andy Clyde and director Del Lord made at Sennett in the early 30's to what they were doing at Columbia a few years later.

'Course the 'toons squeezed most of these folks off the screen in a few years anyway.

[JDWeil]

Here's a story I heard about how Lantz got into Universal. I don't know how true it is... It's been a while since I read Lantz's book, but it's a good story.

Lantz had come west to work for Roach (and Sennett too as I learn from this thread) and had hit hard times. Between jobs in the movies, he took a job as a chauffer. One of his regular customers was Carl Lemmle... he'd drive Lemmle to his weekly poker game with other studio hotshots. Lantz and Lemmle got chummy, and pretty soon Lantz was in on the poker game instead of waiting out in the car.

One night Lemmle casually mentions at the game that he just bought out the rights to Oswald. But he didn't know any animators and had no idea what he was going to do with the character. Lantz's ears perked up, and he proceeded to tell him about his work in New York. The next day, Lantz quit his job as a chauffer and went to work at Universal, and the rest as they say, is history...

See ya
Steve

I don't believe that's quite how it happened. Forst of all. Laemmle owned Oswald right from day one. But in mid-1929. Laemmle had decided to produce Oswald as an in-house operation. The problem wass, who was going to draw the cartoons? As it turned out, Leammle had been having lunch with him for the past two months.And that man was Lantz.

[Friz]

Mack Sennett also must have helped the career of Bing Crosby with those early two reelers.

Best slapstick: Mack Sennett
Best film comedy: Hal Roach
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The 3 Stooges. I have most of their films, including 4 MGMs. Very hardworking clowns that I enjoy watching and have a lot of respect for, but their films tend to be as good as the director of the film. The Edward Bernds are good for their stories and the Del Lord's are pretty good but the Jules Whites are very violent and at times rather painful to watch.
Film buffs seem to always enjoy "The Woman Haters" when I run it.