Gargoyles "Enter MacBeth" Talkback (Spoilers)

[William C. Maune]

It was a time of darkness, it was a world of fear, it was the age of Garogyles. Toon Zone's number three animated show of all time returns to a cable network you actually recieve. This is the official talkback thread for episode #9, "Enter Macbeth," airing on ABC Family's Jetix block Sunday March 28th at 11:00 AM Eastern. Defend the night, watch this morning and comment on this episode.

Xanatos, The Pack, Dracon, Demona. Who else could be after our heroes? Isn't that enough already? Nope, we are just now getting to the Shakespeare! What is MacBeth's secret? Tune in to find out. Jalapeña! ABC Family Jetix.

Spoilers: If the episode has already aired on ABC Family Jetix you do not need to worry about using spoiler tags. If you must comment on episodes that have not yet aired on ABC Family Jetix please use spoiler tags due to the number of people who have not seen the series. Thank you!

[Duke]

Even though everyone already knows this, I'll say it again. Macbeth friggin rules.

He's got the perfect voice (Then again, who DOESN'T on this show?), the right amount of kick arse-ness, and he's from Shakespeare. What else do you need?

I wonder. Would Lexington and Brooklyn be playing Yu-Gi-Oh! or Duel Masters?

[Nick K.]

Graet Episode. The introduction of one of the best Gargoyles villain. Macbeth offered so much to the series, including his awesome story with Demona.

[Duke]

I love the Batman-esque shadow Goliath has when he flies off following Bronx.

[Sandoz]

Whee. Macbeth is fun, and the Shakespeare connection begins.

Favorite moments:

Macbeth defeating the Gargoyles on their own turf.
Macbeth's, "Know her? I named her!"
Owen taking on Hudson over the Grimorum (sp?). He kicks so much backside.

[shogunthethird]

if you think Macbeth rules now, wait until the "City of Stone" Five-parter

[Fone Bone]

MacBeth is my favorite character and this ep shows why. This episode was so awesome. Owen rocked too. He's a badboy. My favorite episode from season one and the first of the series to really show that Gargoyles has a continuing storyline. I love MacBeth's sense of honor and the fact that he isn't really a villian. I've said it before and I'll say it again: This is the greatest dramatic cartoon of all time. MacBeth OWNS!!!!! *****.

[ClockStomper]

Good episode, especially Owen's moments. But the animation was very poor.

[Chad Bonin]

Okay... I woke up late today, forgot this was on, and took a shower. Come out, and the episode after this was on.

Hope it was a continuity-important one.

[Duke]

Hope it was a continuity-important one.
It sets up one of the major villians in the series. He has VERY important ties to Demona.

[William C. Maune]

Duke pretty much summed it up. For future episodes relating to this one probably the most important thing to remember is the Quote of Macbeth that Sandoz posted earlier in the thread.

[ClockStomper]

Okay... I woke up late today, forgot this was on, and took a shower. Come out, and the episode after this was on.

Hope it was a continuity-important one.
Basicly a guy named MacBeth drives the Gargoyles out of the castle for Zanatos, and eludes strong ties to Demona. MacBeth leaves when he realizes Demona wouldn't take the bait of holding the Gargoyles.They move into the clocktower with Elisa's help.

[Space Lion]

Lex: "I remember Goliath saying something about a play named 'MacBeth', by some new writer named, Shakespeare."
Brook: "...ever read it?"
Lex: "No."
Brook: "Maybe we should."

Indeed. :)

There were two things that always bugged me about this episode:

-When Goliath falls through that trap, I remember seeing him wildly spinning around as he fell. In this episode (and the one I saw years ago), we see him just... fall. Am I imagining things?

-When Brooklyn and Lex are trying to free Bronx from his cage, they yell, "ARRGH! Go for help Bronx! HURRY," and they do it twice, with the same vocal inflections and everything. I know audio reuse isn't unusual in animation. But that one really stands out... probably because there's no background music.

Still, it's a good episode. MacBeth is definitely one to keep an eye on.

[oranthal]

I love the Batman-esque shadow Goliath has when he flies off following Bronx.
Speaking of Batman, Macbeth seem to have similar skills to Batman. They would be pretty evenly matched.


if you think Macbeth rules now, wait until the "City of Stone" Five-parter
Four-parter.

John Rhys Davies perfectly voices Macbeth.

[tucsoncoyote]

This is perhaps the main reason why I like this show.. MacBeth is the Perfect Character, and in fact there will be during the series a Lot of Explanation as to how he has lasted all this time.. Also how Demona and even how the Shakespeare's works will tie in, including a trio who will become part of the plot (But that's later on..

but ah Shakespeare, you got to love how this series ties around his writings..(Believe me some of shakespeare's Writings will be revealed.. in due time.

:coyote:

[Conekiller]

best gag: "ouch *zzap* ouch *zzap* ouch *zzap* ouch"

Knux: it may not seem like it now, but I cna't think of a single episode that counts as filler and doens't have some kind of connections to future episodes. (Ok some of the Avalon stuff could be filler, but still.)

[tucsoncoyote]

best gag: "ouch *zzap* ouch *zzap* ouch *zzap* ouch"

actually that Scene Conekiller, Sounds Just like that one scene from the Kim Possible Episode, Vir-tu-ron, Between Malcolm the Wraith Master, and Wade (As a Mage) ..

Malcolm: Ow!
Wade: Stop hitting yourself with your sword!
Malcolm: Ow!
Wade: Stop hitting yourself with your sword!
Malcolm: Ow!
Wade: Stop hitting yourself with your sword!
Malcolm: ENOUGH!
Wade: Uh oh!
Malcolm casts a Firewall spell..

:coyote:

[Knightmare]

I'm sure if this counts as a spoiler but there was something "Enter Macbeth" that I noticed that is also relivent later on and is something that I've wondered about for a while, when either Goliath has a choice of weapons he always seems to pick a mace, why does he pick that over a sword?

[Tobias]

Outside of a few filler eps during the Avalon arc, EVERY episode counts. Miss one ep, miss a lot of continuity down the road.

And pay very close attention to how the characters outside of Goliath's clan interact with each other (Especially everyone Demona comes in contact with), and you may be able to piece together some big surprises.

[Mysteryinfoman]

Macbeth is one of the characters I really liked, especially him in the "City of Stone" multi-parter. This was a pretty good episode as well, nice action and dialouge. I also liked the voice actor of Macbeth, to me he did a great job doing Macbeth.

[Chad Bonin]

Finally got to see it... and I was completely distracted by something...

The designs. I keep on thinking they should be in modern Timm-verse... 'cause I keep on seeing Owen as Bruce or Hudson as Etrigan...

Their too... fluid.

[William C. Maune]

Some B:TAS folks did work on Gargoyles, but Gargoyles was produced between B:TAS and The New Adventures of Batman. Thus, I guess that doesn't help a lot with the modern Timm-verse.

[Chad Bonin]

Yeah, despite the chronological prob, I just keep on thinking Owen is supposed to be... more rigid.

[William C. Maune]

As for the non-rigidness, remember that the three previous series put out by Disney Television Animation were Bonkers, Aladdin and Goof Troop. Gargoyles required quite the transition.

[Gatchagirl]

This is the one thing I've really liked and been curious about
the show. Macbeth being turned into a "real" character in
this fictional show. I know more Shakespeare turned up
later in the series. Sadly I missed the episode again. :(

[William C. Maune]

Macbeth wasn't exactly turned into a real character, he already was a real person. In addition to the Macbeth in Shakespeare's play of the same name, there was a real Scottish King named Macbeth, whom Shakespeare very loosely based his play on.

According to Greg Weisman, in the Gargoyles universe Macbeth is the real Macbeth, not Shakespeare's characters. In fact, in the Gargoyles universe, all of Shakespeare's characters are real folks that Shakespeare wrote stories about.

Also in response to the question "Did Macbeth know Shakespeare? What did he think of Shakespeare's Macbeth?"

He said: "Yes, he knew Shakespeare. They were drinking buddies. Macbeth was amused by the play."

To answer a question from earlier in this thread, when asked: "How could Macbeth take on the gargoyles in hand to hand combat? Gargoyles are way stronger than any human, after all."

Greg replied: "Macbeth has both superior fighting skills and armored clothing that compensate for his lower physical strength."

[Tobias]

Macbeth has had, let's just say, a VERY long time to learn just about every form of self defense. The guy probably knows more about fighting than Batman.

'City of Stone' will fill in a lot of the blanks on Macbeth.

FYI, after City of Stone I never really saw Macbeth as a bad guy, and The episode where he's tricked into marrying Demona really convinced me that he's really not bad, he's just a man trying to come to terms with what he is.

[Conekiller]

Greg replied: "Macbeth has both superior fighting skills and armored clothing that compensate for his lower physical strength."
well there is that OTHER factor that comes into play

(massive spoilers, do your self a favor and don't read if you don't already know what I'm talking about)

When the Weird Sisters linked Macbeth and Demona there was an equal trade off, Macbeth gained a bit of Demona's strenght and age, and Demona gained some of Macbeth's youth

[Antiyonder]

FYI, after City of Stone I never really saw Macbeth as a bad guy, and The episode where he's tricked into marrying Demona really convinced me that he's really not bad, he's just a man trying to come to terms with what he is.

Another thing to prove that is The Goliath Chronicle Episode Journey (Last Gargoyle episode done by Greg Weissman). On that episode,

He is on news program Nightwatch trying to convince the public that Gargoyles are not a threat to humanity.

[HellCat]

-When Brooklyn and Lex are trying to free Bronx from his cage, they yell, "ARRGH! Go for help Bronx! HURRY," and they do it twice, with the same vocal inflections and everything. I know audio reuse isn't unusual in animation. But that one really stands out... probably because there's no background music.


From the 'Ask Greg' WCM mentioned-

"One thing we did, which I regret, is reuse dialogue. Elisa says "You aren't safe here" like three times. And it isn't three different takes. It's just the exact same take reprinted and reused. Lex & Brooklyn also reuse lines to get Bronx to find Goliath. That sort of thing drives me nuts. "

[Starlioness]

Macbeth was always the best character next to Xanatos..

when I saw Aladdin and the King of Thieves , I noticed Cassim had Macbeth's voice. and almost thouught that Macbeth was Al's dad :lol: and the same voice was also used for Mowgli's *adopted* father in the Jungle book 2 ;)

[alex]

I'm sure if this counts as a spoiler but there was something "Enter Macbeth" that I noticed that is also relivent later on and is something that I've wondered about for a while, when either Goliath has a choice of weapons he always seems to pick a mace, why does he pick that over a sword?
Goliath chooses a mace over a sword because it best suits his skill level. As tough and clever as he is, Goliath isn't really a master of any particular fighting style. Sword play is very complex and takes years to master. A mace is a bit more of a "hit your enemy as hard as you can" weapon. All a mace really needs is someone with a great deal of strength bebind it, because it's purpose is to crush your opponent's skull, or shatter bones.

[Caswin]

First, I am loving this continuity.

Second, Macbeth's awesome. The final fight could've been one of the greatest ever but for two things:
First, better storyboarding. Seemed awkward occasionally.

Second - newbie, mind, no outright spoilers - do we ever learn how he got the ability to whip half the gargoyles and hold his own against Goliath? Getting knocked back by a body check from a muscleman who's probably a juicer is one thing, but this kind of detracted from the episode for me, and I'd rather find the answer at some point.

Oh, and Owen's "You are trespassing" was a great touch.

[Mad Mod 49]

do we ever learn how he got the ability to whip half the gargoyles and hold his own against Goliath?

Let's just say Macbeth's been around for a long time and has had quite alot of fighting experience, including with Gargoyles.

[DarthGonzo]

Wow...old thread.

[Hyper Shadow X]

Always loved this eppy.

[William C. Maune]

Wow...old thread.

It's a Talkback thread. They are meant to be used if someone wants to talk about an individual episode.