Original Tex Avery titles— in our midst!

[David Gerstein]

Hey, everyone...

Jerry Beck has just posted an interesting collection of images on his website: this group (http://www.cartoonresearch.com/warner.html) of numerous original Tex Avery Warner title cards (and a single piece of what looks like Bosko footage), sold recently on eBay. Some of these seem to be unique examples that were lost to the world— until now!— when the Blue Ribbon rereleases were manufactured.
It seems our own Sogturtle, Tim C., is now the proud owner!

Congratulations, man— I sure hope to see the images and the information on these cards put to good use (say, on the next Golden Collection!).

[Jave]

That is so cool! Nick, you have to see this!!

Spoiler bar just to not ruin the surprise:
I see the original title cards of "The Early Worm Gets the Bird", "Wacky Wildlife" "The Bear's Tale", "Fresh Fish", "A Feud There Was", "Thugs With Dirty Mugs", "Of Fox and Hounds", "The Mice Will Play", "Don't Look Now", "Johnny Smith and Poker-Huntas", "Little Red Walking Hood", "I Only Have Eyes For You", "Circus Today", "Daffy Duck and Egghead", "The Isle of Pingo Pongo" (!) and "I Love to Singa". Too bad the images are too small so we can't read the credits.

Hope this means the cartoons can be restored with full original titles. :D

[duck dodgers]

That is so cool! Nick, you have to see this!!

Spoiler bar just to not ruin the surprise:
I see the original title cards of "The Early Worm Gets the Bird", "Wacky Wildlife" "The Bear's Tale", "Fresh Fish", "A Feud There Was", "Thugs With Dirty Mugs", "Of Fox and Hounds", "The Mice Will Play", "Don't Look Now", "Johnny Smith and Poker-Huntas", "Little Red Walking Hood", "I Only Have Eyes For You", "Circus Today", "Daffy Duck and Egghead", "The Isle of Pingo Pongo" (!) and "I Love to Singa". Too bad the images are too small so we can't read the credits.

Hope this means the cartoons can be restored with full original titles. :D
oh boy,oh boy,oh boy,thanks to jerry beck and sogturle,i sure hope they'll be on the future looney tunes golden collection sets!

[Nick]

:D :) Yes!!!! Those images are so cool! I desperately hope that these will be restored! Tex Avery's title cards were probably the best looking of their time. No Tex Avery cartoons were on the first Looney Tune Golden Collection and these will hopefully make up for that. They could have an entire disc!

[Matthew Hunter]

Holy crap! :eek::eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: The "Daffy Duck and Egghead" card is very interesting...written over the orange circles! "Wacky Wildlife"! "The Bear's Tale!" "A Feud there was!" "I Love To Sing-A!" Man, I wish those images were bigger...Soggy?

-Matthew

[J Lee]

I assume Tim is busy even as we speak trying to come up with bridging music for the opening titles in order to restore the cartoons... ;)

[Jave]

Have you guys noticed the Blue Ribbon says "Wacky Wildlife", yet the original is "Wacky Wild Life"?

[rex racer]

This is a great find, and congratulations for locating and successfully bidding for these relics Soggy! I guess the question is, can the original titles now be restored in such a fashion to appear with their prints as they did originally? I know Jerry Beck did a fantastic job re-creating the Fleischer "Color Classic" titles, but wouldn't some of the intro credit title cards still be needed for these WB films?

[Thad Komorowski]

Here's the actual auction, in case anyone is interested:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3281871722&category=1537


-Thad

[nakak]

Holy crap! It's a little blurry, but so that's what the original title for "I Love ot Singa" and such looks like...

Take good care of this Tim...

I'm glad Avery kept the clippings in his collection.

[Billy]

WOW! These look great! I'm not sure if they'll actually be put on the cartoons on the Golden Collection, as the original music doesn't exist, but well done to Sogturtle for grabbing them in time!

[The G Man]

the original music doesn't existWho knows? Maybe the sound-discs are preserved somewhere ... how else would The Carl Stalling Project have been assembled?

[nakak]

Who knows? Maybe the sound-discs are preserved somewhere ... how else would The Carl Stalling Project have been assembled?Yeah, I think some of the original masters for the original opening musics exist somewhere in Warner's vault

[Lee Glover]

That is a fantastic find. It's great to know that the original titles are in safe hands (well done, Soggy!). ;)

I would love to see those titles on a future Golden Collection set, possibly as a stills gallery of lost titles if the original opening music tracks cannot be found.

[Sogturtle]

My good friends (David, Javeman, Duck Dodgers, Nick, Matthew Hunter, J. Lee, Rex Racer, Thad, Charles, Billy, G Man, Lee Glover, Jerry)...

Thank you so much for all of your congratulations and kind words... And yes I'm going to take good care of them... ;)

[duck dodgers]

My good friends (David, Javeman, Duck Dodgers, Nick, Matthew Hunter, J. Lee, Rex Racer, Thad, Charles, Billy, G Man, Lee Glover, Jerry)...

Thank you so much for all of your congratulations and kind words... And yes I'm going to take good care of them... ;)

oh,give us more details if you can,please and ...could you post bigger pictures of the title cards?
thanks,soggie

[Steve Carras]

Sog, add me to your list as I saw the title cards (some of which, of course, were already on the reissue prints-case in point 1941's CRACKPOT QUAIL)

[Larry T]

Yeah, I think some of the original masters for the original opening musics exist somewhere in Warner's vaultThe only problem, of course, being that some of the titles are animated as Avery did on a few of them, like "Screwball Football".

[Patrick McCart]

WOW.

What an incredible find!

Are those nitrate, BTW?

[absolutpaul]

That's a good question...are they nitrate?? If they are, how would they be shipped???

[nakak]

I was looking at the pictures of the frames and I notice some of the titles that wasn't cursed with Blue Ribbon like "Crackpot Quail", "Believe it or Else", and "Hameture Night".

Did Warners cut the titles off just for heck of it, or just some frames taken off at the film editing room before those was released.

BTW, you know those early 1950s cartoons where they replaced the title-cards, but left the credits intact (like "Tweety's SOS", etc.), did someone had luck finding the original ones?

[Jack]

I was looking at the pictures of the frames and I notice some of the titles that wasn't cursed with Blue Ribbon like "Crackpot Quail", "Believe it or Else", and "Hameture Night".

Did Warners cut the titles off just for heck of it, or just some frames taken off at the film editing room before those was released.Those wouldn't have come from the film editing room because they are taken from positive prints of those cartoons. I think when you edit film, you edit the negatives. This is just a guess, but Tex Avery probably cut those off of some prints that were going to be destroyed anyway (which is what the studios did once the cartoons had finished thier run in theaters).

I'm very happy that "one of us" has the titles, and Sogturtle is sure to take care of them. It would be nice if they were made available for the WB restoration department to use, though I have doubts that the titles could be restored unless the original music tracks are found, but a "lost title card gallery" and a brief documentary about blue ribbons on one of the upcoming collections would still be a great way to present them.

Congratulations, Sogturtle!

Jack:bosko:

[Emmanuel Cruz]

Wow, that's great news! Great job, Soggy for getting these gems. I hope the upcoming LTGC DVDs will use these title cards to the best extent possible, either through a gallery or the restoration of the actual credits. Curse you WB and your Blue Ribbon re-issues! :mad:

Now that we got these title cards, let's just pray that WB has the sound discs! We are getting closer to the dream! :)

Job well done, Soggy ol' boy! :) :) :)

-Emmanuel:bosko:

[Friz]

A great find Sogturtle and very important for the history of animation. It's amazing what continues to turn up after all this time and the chances of more especially with online auctions such as e-bay are very good. I'm not sure about restoring them with the footage but perhaps on the golden collection they could show the still before the blue ribbon actually begins...until we find the whole original footage so we can see if they also had animated features to them which Avery & Clampett liked to do...I think that Warners would have the sound files. Although, it's always surprised me that they didn't keep the original footage themselves...... Maybe they did and indeed do have the footage but don't want to invest the money to restore them. They did clean their cartoon studios out in the early 70s I think for storage space, but the prints would not have been stored there, so there must be a good chance. I notice on the computer coloured Porky's that the Sunset & Guild stuff is gone and the propper Warner/Vitaphone flag & Looney Tunes is restored.
Anyway...I look forward to seeing some of them enlarged and again I think it's a wonderful find.

[cabe624]

WOW! Tim, you might possibly be the luckiest person on this forum. Congratulations on the great find and I hope you put them to good use! (Looney Tunes Golden Collection)

[Bugsmer]

Tim, that certainly is a great catch! Congratulations! You're one man we all trust with original film prints that are unavailable everywhere else, and we know that you'll do your best to study them and catalogue them. Way to go!

[Larry T]

I'm always happy when extremely rare artifacts like these get into the right hands, especially with someone who will take care of them.

Since they're 35mm, then the clarity will be much better if a screenshot gallery were to be prepared for an upcoming LTGC.

Another thing I was thinking about is if any of those actually DO exist in Warner's vault already. Jerry may have hinted at seeing "I Love To Sing-A" on the next GC DVD, in which case this title card clipping might not be necessary, because Warner's may have had access to the original non-BR version all along. If not, I hope it isn't too late to maybe re-create the titles for DVD releases of that cartoon.

I remember Jerry mentioning someplace that many of the pre-48 original titles still do exist, so hopefully for whichever ones that don't exist, Tim's clippings may be used as reference to "re-create" the original titles for archival purposes (provided the audio tracks can be located to do it). Either way, as long as those horrid BR versions can be corrected, it will please many people.

[stevea]

I think Jerry thought they existed, then when I expressed (my only) problem with GC on AnimationShow (re: Blue Ribbon) he says they discovered that the original negs. were altered. All this discussion was on the post-1948 material.

But I have to think they have a lot of the original material available, pre-1948. When you think of the lousy colorizations that went on with the Porky Pig LT's...yet when they wanted to re-do them in the 90's, voila...original openings, with clean dissolves to title cards!

[Nelson]

My tip my hat off to you Tim for getting these very rare pieces of animation.

First an original Columbia KRAZY KAT title surfaces a few weeks ago and now original titles for some Avery WB cartoons and that's simply amazing find my turtle friend. ;)

Tim, I do have a a couple of questions for you...

What condititon are the 35mm nitrate prints?

Has Warner Bros. been contacted about the discovery?

[Nelson]

There is something that I forgot to mention in last post, but have you ever noticed that it's the cartoon fans, that can find the rarest pieces of animation and most of the time, not the big studios?

[Jave]

There is something that I forgot to mention in last post, but have you ever noticed that it's the cartoon fans, that can find the rarest pieces of animation and most of the time, not the big studios?Which proves that many studios don't even care about their classic animation. :p

On another note: look at the credits in "Circus Today". According to Dave Mackey's site the credited animator is Rollin Hamilton, but is it just me or the title card says R. Hamilton?

[oldgreypole]

I wonder why Tex Avery didn't keep entire reels.

[Jack]

I wonder why Tex Avery didn't keep entire reels.35mm reels of film take up a lot of space, and I think you need a permit to store large quantities of nitrate film.

[Matthew Hunter]

There is something that I forgot to mention in last post, but have you ever noticed that it's the cartoon fans, that can find the rarest pieces of animation and most of the time, not the big studios?
Funny how that works out. That's probably just because fans probably know more about the cartoons themselves than the studios who own them do. With this Merrie Melodies stuff especially, Warner Bros. would have had no REASON to know, or care about the titles to these old cartoons. Why? They didn't own them, and restoring them would be pointless as they could not release them once they did. Fans, however, DID care all along, and we have FANS to thank for a lot of what we know about the cartoons. Do you think all the extensive interview information by Michael Barrier would have been done by Warner Bros. themselves? Who besides Jerry Beck and Will Friedwald would have sat down and watched/documented all the cartoons and discovered exactly which ones had credits and which didnt? Would Warner Bros., once they DID own the cartoons, have done anything even close to "Golden Collection" if people like us hadn't been around to demand it?

Most of the cool stuff we've found and reported here at the TTTP was bought from people or places that didn't know what they had. To the average person, those Tex Avery titles or some old film print of a black and white cartoon laying around are just old junk. I'm sure there's a lot more stuff like that out there, sitting in someone's basement or attic. It turns up when somebody decides to open up a dusty old box labeled "grandpa's film collection" or some deceased person's estate sale reveals they collected cartoon memorabilia.

some WB executive is not going to travel to every nook and cranny of the universe in search of this stuff-it takes the trained eye of a fan who knows what they're talking about, and usually happens on accident.

-Matthew

[Brandon Pierce]

For years we've called it "A Fued There Was", but thanks to this, we can now safely say the title is "Fued There Was". Same with "Wacky Wild Life"

Since we now know what the original titles look like from these Avery cartoons, DO YOU THINK the cut ending to The Heckling Hare might not be far behind?

[nakak]

For years we've called it "A Fued There Was", but thanks to this, we can now safely say the title is "Fued There Was".Actually, I think there is an "A" on "Feud".

[Brandon Pierce]

Nope, not an A. It's a quotation mark.

And if it is an A, then you can kick my butt.

[nakak]

well hopefully Soggy can blow up some of the lost titles on his projector and post pictures for closer look.

[Jave]

Nope, not an A. It's a quotation mark.

And if it is an A, then you can kick my butt.Let me kick your butt then, it's definitely a "A" :p

[MikeH0714]

But I have to think they have a lot of the original material available, pre-1948. When you think of the lousy colorizations that went on with the Porky Pig LT's...yet when they wanted to re-do them in the 90's, voila...original openings, with clean dissolves to title cards!
I doubt that's a fair comparison. Sunset/Guild LT's were for television use only; WB may have retained the theatrical rights. Even if that's not true (as with the A.A.P. package), it's clear that WB provided Sunset/Guild with dupe negatives, and kept the fine grain preservation negatives themselves. When the hand-coloring took place in the late sixties, W-B sent over a set of prints struck from Sunset/Guild (or 7Arts) negs - seeing no need to pull out and use the fine grains for such a project.

The Blue Ribbons are another matter entirely. WB came up with (or asked Schlesinger for) the reissue idea themselves. Since these reissue prints were being struck for theaters, it "made sense" to cut the new titles into the fine grain negatives. And, in keeping with the mentality of the day, why save what you no longer need? So the old titles were discarded.

I'm not saying that's definitely what happened - hopefully it didn't. I'm just saying we shouldn't compare what a TV distributor did to what WB did themselves.

At least all the Blue Ribbons aren't missing the title and credits cards. (I'm trying to see the glass as half full.) :)

Michael

[Brandon Pierce]

At least all the Blue Ribbons aren't missing the title and credits cards. (I'm trying to see the glass as half full.) :)

MichaelErr.... don't you mean "half-empty"?;)

[SirRuppOfFiggs]

OMG! $513 ! Dirt cheap (if you have that kind of cash laying around. 'The pearl of great value,' otherwise)!

I hope all Warners toons get remastered. It would be a shame to let those "Isle Of Pingo-Pongo" & "Uncle Tom's Bungalow" cards go to waste.

How about that feller who was holding out for a princely sum for his "A Wild Hare" title card. Bet he feels pretty silly [music cue: "He's A Horse's Ass"].

[Sogturtle]

Siiiiiiiiiigh... Wellllllll, since this thread has been briefly revived (which I started to do do a few days back but figured it was too late already...). Then here goes...

Okay all my good friends, here how it stands... I got the little goobers alright! And since temps here had been suddenly pushing 100 degrees I'd asked seller Howard Lowery to basically go to extreme measures to protect them. His belief was that they were not nitrate but safety film... But to humor me, he complied with my request... Thus the package arrived and was a number of boxes within boxes amidst voluminous packing material, bubble-wrap, foam peanuts, cardboard etc... AND we can all thank God the temperatures had plunged by the time the package showed up.

When I finally got down to them this is what I found... An original standard size envelope (!?!?) with a drawing of a full figure smiling Droopy printed on the left side of it! Obviously this was really Tex's own unique storage method! Across the middle was red-grease pencil lettering saying "OLD CARTOON CLIPS" And beside that a brief pencil description saying "Warner Title cards" "Frames Sinkin In The Bathtub" "Cagey Canary" "MGM Title Early Bird Dood It" [descriptions obviously added by someone]. Taking out and separately holding and viewing the ALL IMPORTANT CONTENTS (the frames) actually gave me a funny, spooky feeling knowing I was holding something that Tex Avery ALONE had had the sense to preserve (out of the hundreds of prints made of each cartoon). And that I was essentially holding a real historical treasure!! Trust me, I handled them verrrrrry gingerly while marveling at the clarity and lack of brittleness. Howard Lowery had described them to me in similar terms, but as I held and examined each one I saw on the stock edge of one just the ending of a word "...ate"... As I examined others I finally did see the full word "Nitrate" and then again and again... So boys that answers that question!!! They are fully intact and they are nitrate!!! AND they are beautiful!! And it's amusing to see that the original title for "A Feud There Was" is not simply the lettering in hillbilly script, but is a photo of a real jug of moonshine!! I can see Tex asking Smokey Garner if he had one of those around the house!! :p (If you want to hear something funny I just received an original cel from "A Feud..." featuring the two laughing hillbillies!). The frames are now wrapped back up in a room averaging around 65 degrees F.

Anyway... the real issue everyone is so interested in... Are you going to see them again??? My answer? YES, You're darn right you are, I don't believe in forever locking things away in a private collection (even mine).

Now here's a brief theoretical question for everybody... Do you think I should accept a teeny tiny token payment from Warner Bros. for their being allowed to use them, or simply allow them to be used free and gratis...??? I honestly would like feedback from my friends on this...!!



Additional note... I have NOT been in direct contact with Warners... It was simply conveyed to me that it was Warners idea to pay me $250 for their use and that they'd be returned to me within 7 days...

[nakak]

hey.

about charging the Warner's to use the films. That depends, are you going to ship it to them or give it in person. If shipping, add money for shipping and insurance.

Either way maybe at least $10 per clippings they're going to use. It's your's so it's your decision, but that's my opinion...

[STASHONE]

I wouldn't think that asking for some sort of financial compensation in such an instance shouldn't be warranted; afterall, you laid out the funds and were looking out in the best interest for these artifacts whereas the good folks at Warners could have just as easily placed their bids, but obviously aren't making that extra effort or taking any incentive to find and preserve these important film documents. Therefore, given the ammount you paid and the enormous service it would be in Warners interest to obtain these title cards, asking does not seem unreasonable to me. They will undoubtedly be used and incorporated in upcoming home video releases and will certainly be a huge benefit and also bonus to consumers who take this sort of thing into account or interest, so asking is certainly justified - just as one would and should recieve financial compensation for licensing rights and use to certain films, as should you in aiding the studio out of nothing more than your own good will and concern for the negatives and their historical context, especially if it will be advantageous and profitable to WB..

On the other hand, Warners might not hold these negatives to the same level of importance as we do here given that we are hardcore film and animation buffs and in all honesty, they are executives with financial concern for the most part. I would say again that asking would certainly be warranted, but not demanding. If they are not willing to offer any sort of financial compensation, perhaps a contract stipulating due credit or acknowledgement be certified in any instance in which these film negs would be put to use for commercial release? I think for the most part, you should consider the documents at hand and their importance to the film and animation world, but again I do not think that asking for monetary compensation for your service is unfounded..

[Larry T]

Tim, since you never really know how many hands these would pass through on their path through Warner's production process, I would ask a small fee from Warners' and feel quite justified in doing it. The main reason here, I think, is to protect your interests from making the original investment on acquiring these ultra-rare animation artifacts.

Consider this: What if they get "lost" in production or in postage? What if a number of people on the "inside" pull them to a film lab overnight and make reproduction dupes off them? What if Assistant Project CEO Boss Hogg has them sitting on his desk right where he spills his brown sugared double-cuppuchino sludge? These are things to take into account when wanting to lend out your personal archives.

I'm only pointing this out based on experience... I "lost" a very rare film print once because I didn't get some kind of collateral insurance when I allowed a certain party to borrow it :mad: .

[Jack]

I'm with Larry. You should get some kind of compensation in the event Warner Bros. loses/destroys them (not that money could ever replace them...).

I'm glad you're gonna "do the right thing" and let these titles be seen. Future generations of cartoon fans will forever be grateful!


Jack:bosko:

[Sogturtle]

...I added an important detail or two to my original post guys...

[Thad Komorowski]

Tim, I'd make WB pay the full $500 (and more for your troubles) for use of them, just in case anything gets damaged...


-Thad

[Patrick McCart]

I think it would be nice if Warner Bros. paid you for recovering the titles...

Although, I'd make sure you have a little bit of input on what will be done.

First, you should make sure that they make actual 35mm duplicate elements. Also, they should scan the frames at 4K resolution (roughly 3000x4000 pixels) so that they'd be digitally preserved as well.

It would be interesting to see if the soundtrack could be recovered thanks to the short bits remaining on the clips.

[Jave]

Mmmm... considering that these are just the titles and not the full opening sequences, they can't use them to ENTIRELY restore the cartoons with original titles, but they surely will help.

For example, the ones with the credits on the rings could be restored by taking another cartoon from the period and just changing the title card. Only problem would be the production number...

For other cartoons they could take the opening from another carton and adding the titles at the end, if the bridging music is fully lost, they could use a tune from a cartoon with a similar theme. For example, the music from "All This and Rabbit Stew" fits "The Early Worm Gets The Bird"

Still, it's great news that Soggy is making the cels availaible, just be careful when loaning them, it will be a shame if one of them becomes "lost in the mail"...

BTW, what temperatures are considered "dangerous" for nitrates?

[Frank Flood]

Tim - State in writing, signed by both you and Warners, all of the terms on which you will deliver the frames to them, they will make copies, and they will return them to you. If money changes hands, put those terms down as well, but I'm guessing the safe return of the frames will be your main concern. You might want to price insurance for these as well, and your agreement should state who pays the premium.

Frank

[Larry T]

For other cartoons they could take the opening from another carton and adding the titles at the end, if the bridging music is fully lost, they could use a tune from a cartoon with a similar theme.
Didn't someone mention here once that the audio tracks are stored separately from the visual reels on many occasions? (That was mentioned on the topic of the "Carl Stalling Project" once before). Unless there was some kind of interesting dissolve from the WB Rings "Title" and a visual "Title" (like on "Uncle Tom's Bungalow"), the cartoon could be reconstructed. Heck, I could even do that with the right materials!!

The production numbers are usually written all over a lot of things- the dopesheets, character model sheets, timing charts, animator assignment folders, etc.... so that would be a lot easier to verify for a final print as well.

[Bugsmer]

Tim,

Why lend them the originals? If I were you, I'd make copies of each piece of film and send the copies to Warner Bros. You could even travel over to Hollywood and sit and watch the assistants while they play around with your prints, ensuring that nothing bad happens to them. Perhaps TCM can make you a good copy.

[MikeH0714]

Now here's a brief theoretical question for everybody... Do you think I should accept a teeny tiny token payment from Warner Bros. for their being allowed to use them, or simply allow them to be used free and gratis...??? I honestly would like feedback from my friends on this...!!



Additional note... I have NOT been in direct contact with Warners... It was simply conveyed to me that it was Warners idea to pay me $250 for their use and that they'd be returned to me within 7 days...

Based on my own limited experience with this type of "loan," I believe the industry minimum is (or was in 1995) $50 for each item they actually use. So that's what I would ask for in your case: $50 per title card that they use. That's hardly extortionate, and it should get you back your entire investment plus. If you choose to negotiate from there, it's your call.

And, yes, it should all be in writing. I'd say it's a given that it will be.

Michael

[David Gerstein]

Hey Tim,

I'm in touch with Jerry Beck, and as far as I know— *he* will be the *only* guy to handle the frames.
I know Jerry's borrowed rare films from private collectors in the past, and thus made them available to all of us (remember how old GAoLT laser discs featured the original HARE RIBBIN and the Hook WWII cartoons?). From what he's told me, he just wants to do the same thing here.

So using the original titles is clearly Jerry's initiative, not Warners'. Warners— whose love of cartoons begins and ends with Scooby— could care less. Put the screws on them for more moolah, and I fear they might decide it was easier to just can the whole deal.
And then we'd all be back to Blue Ribbons...

Looking at the eBay listing for the frames, and checking the other people who bid, I learned awhile back that you actually outbid Jerry himself for them at the last minute! Seeing as he's still apparently got Warners to offer you half what you paid plus *safe* shipping (be it FedEx, DHL, or whatever), it sounds like a good deal to me.

And *for* me, because you'll be doing me, and every other TTTPer a favor!

[Sogturtle]

Hey Tim,

I'm in touch with Jerry Beck, and as far as I know— *he* will be the *only* guy to handle the frames.
I know Jerry's borrowed rare films from private collectors in the past, and thus made them available to all of us (remember how old GAoLT laser discs featured the original HARE RIBBIN and the Hook WWII cartoons?). From what he's told me, he just wants to do the same thing here.

So using the original titles is clearly Jerry's initiative, not Warners'. Warners— whose love of cartoons begins and ends with Scooby— could care less. Put the screws on them for more moolah, and I fear they might decide it was easier to just can the whole deal.
And then we'd all be back to Blue Ribbons...

Looking at the eBay listing for the frames, and checking the other people who bid, I learned awhile back that you actually outbid Jerry himself for them at the last minute! Seeing as he's still apparently got Warners to offer you half what you paid plus *safe* shipping (be it FedEx, DHL, or whatever), it sounds like a good deal to me.

And *for* me, because you'll be doing me, and every other TTTPer a favor!

David~

It really wasn't my point to put the screws on Warners (a company with a market cap in the Tens of Billions of dollars :) ) for more money... The point is and was that offering somebody (even little moi) $250 for something that is utterly irreplaceable comes out as a grave insult, I'd honestly as soon accept $1 as the $250. And maybe $1 is what I'll insist on (besides the proffered credit). And I have no doubt about Jerry's motives on this being pure.

As to whether I outbid Jerry that's a moot question... I'd put my bid in via an autobidder and it was going to outbid everybody... Among my VERY valid fears was that somebody outside the country might well bid and WIN and not be willing to share the little guys PERIOD!!!
Thus the way a turtle's mind works...

[Larry T]

Tim, knowing that these will be taken care of personally by Jerry on the Job ;) , I'd have complete confidence that your items will be treated with the utmost care. My advice: take the $250 and the 7-day rental period :cool: , and trust Jerry to do the right thing.

[Sogturtle]

Tim, knowing that these will be taken care of personally by Jerry on the Job ;) , I'd have complete confidence that your items will be treated with the utmost care. My advice: take the $250 and the 7-day rental period :cool: , and trust Jerry to do the right thing.


Hi Larry... I trust Jerry that's no problem, not even an issue here. I'm leaning more and more towards just asking for the $1 I mentioned above!!! The $250 comes off in my mind at least as an insult tantamount to somebody asking if they can buy your kid for $250!!! Think I am going to go with my $1 notion...

[duck dodgers]

Hi Larry... I trust Jerry that's no problem, not even as issue here. I'm leaning more and more towards just asking for the $1 I mentioned above!!! The $250 comes off in my mind at least as an insult tantamount to somebody asking if they can buy your kid for $250!!! Think I am going to go with my $1 notion...

do what ever your heart say,the important thing is that wb will can restore the original titles for these classic cartoons,thanks beforehand for this soggie

[STASHONE]

$250 VS. $1... I'd insultingly accept.

:)

Knowing Jerry will be handling these, I would also put my confidence in wholeheartedly. Please keep us posted on the status Sog!

[ThePeterNetwork]

If you ask me, I wouldn't give these filmstrips to anybody, period. Not unless you get total supervisory control over them to make sure the mucky-mucks at WB doesn't ruin them with their relaxed attitudes toward classic cartoons. After all, these are your priceless treasures we're talking about.

I know, I know, there are claims that a professional film historian will oversee the handling of these title cards, but you can't be too sure of such things. You have no idea what WB might do with your filmstrips once they get their grubby, little paws on them. For all we know, they may pay you your $250 (whether or not you insist on getting only $1), and you'll never see your filmstrips ever again, just so they can get back what they feel fans like you don't deserve to have. This is how they don't care about the fans and only care about making money.

But this is your decision, Sogturtle. I know nothing about film preservation. Heck, I don't even take out my old Super-8 silent projector anymore to run my student film collection just for kicks. And just as much as I'd like to purchase a 16mm sound projector and begin collecting cartoon films, I just don't have the money or the space for it.

And if Jerry himself could confirm that he'll be handling the film restoration, that would be appreciated as well.

[Nelson]

Warners— whose love of cartoons begins and ends with Scooby— could care less.

Not to change the subject matter, but I wholeheartly agree with David on this one, when Warners considers Scooby Doo(the worst animated series in history) a *bigger top priorty* than Bugs Bunny, for which Warners feels that Scooby is more marketable than their very own Looney Tunes product.That's why you see more Scooby on dvd's and televison, than Bugs and the rest of the Looney Tunes characters.

[Brandon Pierce]

Not to change the subject matter, but I wholeheartly agree with David on this one, when Warners considers Scooby Doo(the worst animated series in history) a *bigger top priorty* than Bugs Bunny, for which Warners feels that Scooby is more marketable than their very own Looney Tunes product.That's why you see more Scooby on dvd's and televison, than Bugs and the rest of the Looney Tunes characters.Scooby Doo isn't thab a cartoon. He's just over-rated. I can think of other cartoons that are far much worse than Scooby.

And has mentioned by others, I think Sogturtle, oughtta just SCAN the images and send the copies to WB.

[Jack]

What would Sogturtle scan the images with? I doubt he has access to that kind of equiptment. As for making film copies (another suggestion that has been made as an alternative to sending the originals), I'd trust Jerry Beck and the Warner Bros. restoration department over some local film processing place.


Jack:bosko:

[cabe624]

Sogturtle, I think that as long as you get the film clips to Warners safely, they will take good care of them. I mean, the people that do the film transfers there have handled nitrate as old, if not older, than the ones that you have. The only problem is getting the clips there :confused: