First PSP Footage: Death Jr.

[ZeroFate]

Wow. (http://www.1up.com/article2/0,2053,1554440,00.asp)

*Jaw drops*

I haven't been interested in handheld gaming since the "Gamegear," but if all PSP games are gonna look like that... count me in! :D

[Vidfreak]

By the looks of that video it looks like the 3-D viewpoints will be very hard to see. The only way ill buy a PSP is if lots of 2-D games are made. A 2-D PSP Castlevania would seal the deal for me.

[Invader_Spooch]

.........Nintendo should be peeing in their collective pants right now. (Sorry, I needed to be the first one to post a Sony fanboy esque comment):D

That was fricking amazing.

[The Jinjo]

Let this be a day going down in history folks. This is the first game on a sony machine ive ever been interested in.

[Beat]

Frickin-sweet!

Guess they made the right choice with the delay...

[Spawn]

This game actually looks pretty fun. Can't say I'm that amazed at what it can do...things so small can do just as much as the big boys can anymore.

Great games, cool look, and name recognition aside, the deciding factor about this system is going to be the price.

[The Jinjo]

The only thing that I'm worried about is the screen size. I'm not sure how well 3D games will be on a small screen. We'll see!

[Bound High]

I am hoping it doesn't pull a Malice on us.

[Nimbleness]

2D games are now at their demise ='(

Thanks a lot modern technology.

I did actually half mean that. Well, maybe I 3/4's meant that.

...or some number in that general area.

[Squall]

.........Nintendo should be peeing in their collective pants right now. (Sorry, I needed to be the first one to post a Sony fanboy esque comment):D

That was fricking amazing.
As long as the PSP stays at its rumored $200 price tag, I don't think Nintendo needs to get an extra pair of pants... video game afficianados will buy the PSP, but the typical Mom & Dad buying a portable video game system for their kid(s) to play in the suburban will stick with the substantially cheaper GBA.

Personally, I'm hoping that the PSP does great, and the GBA continues to be a success as well.

A few questions come to mind though: First, will PSP games play on the PS2? (They are disks, correct?) Second, will the PSP play DVDs? And third, can it also be used as an MP3 player? For $200, most consumers are going to expect the PSP to have a lot of features on it... and not be as clumsy as the N-Gage...

[Beat]

1. No, but they will play on the PS3.

2. No.

3. It's rumored yes.

[Sketch]

I really hope 2D portables don't go the way of the 2D console games. 2D games can be so beautiful when done with newer technology. I really don't want a portable to go all 3D until it can push GCN/PS2 like graphics. PSX's polygons would look painful on a portable. I expect better than that of course, but developers are lazy... look at all the shovel ware for the GBA.

I want both to succeed (well GBA already is fine and will be) so I hope the PSP gets the respect it deserves... unlike the ill-fated N-Gage. But I don't want the same thing to happen to Nintendo as the N64 VS PSX was... Right now the GBA is supported by older gamers but will that last with the PSP on the horizon? Probably unless Nintendo themselves quit supporting older gamers. I'd hate to see that happen and I don't expect it to but I learned to expect anything in the gaming industry. It'll be a sad day indeed when the GBA becomes nothing more than a kids handheld.

[Killtacular]

2D games can be so beautiful when done with newer technology.
Then why is there no 2D killer app that's on everyone's minds? If 2D deserves to still be around, where is its champion, I ask you?

[The Jinjo]

Then why is there no 2D killer app that's on everyone's minds? If 2D deserves to still be around, where is its champion, I ask you?
Game Boy Advance has plenty of 2D"champions".

[Killtacular]

No, it has games that would rank a B+ at best, but would hardly be considered groundbreaking, incredible, or remembered in 10 years.

[Artimus Gigan]

No, it has games that would rank a B+ at best, but would hardly be considered groundbreaking, incredible, or remembered in 10 years.Pokemon...Pokemon will never die....

Also Golden Sun...

[Romanesque]

Then why is there no 2D killer app that's on everyone's minds? If 2D deserves to still be around, where is its champion, I ask you?

I'm wondering if this deserves any actual attempt at a reply...

...nah.

--Romey

[guinaevere]

Actually, I think it's an entirely fair question.

But, I do see the flaw in that people generally don't sit back and say, "you know... if there's one thing I remember about Unreal, it's that it's 3D." You take that sort of thing for granted. You may be floored the first time you cross from a 2D world into your first iteration of a 3D game. But from then on, it's cake.

Anyway, so Mr Wilson can't go and say no one has given him examples, here are the ones that spring to my minds as good examples of fun 2D games: earlier Castlevania & LucasArts adventure games, Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past, and the Lost Vikings.

I don't provide "Killer App" titles, simply because I have this completely unfounded bias against the term. I'm a girl. I'm entitled to be irrational every now and then. ;)

[Romanesque]

Actually, I think it's an entirely fair question.

Unfortunately, the current market is swamped with 3D games. If there's any lack of a modern 2D killer ap, it's because few to none are trying to make such a game. So no, it's not an entirely fair question. Most of what there is remains limited to handhelds.

--Romey

[Sketch]

Then why is there no 2D killer app that's on everyone's minds? If 2D deserves to still be around, where is its champion, I ask you?
Mega Man, Metroid, and Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga (still waiting for an original Mario Bros. platformer for the GBA though) and how about all those 2D fighters? Metal Slug, Contra, Sonic, and a few other games just work better in 2D. Honestly I'm suprised Mario's transition to 3D was so good.

You may not think those are champions but plenty of people do.

Heck man people love having SMB3 on GBA. It may be old news but a good game is a good game. (and yes to many SMB3 is a good game)

Pokemon wont stay 2D for long... it already has plenty of 3D variations and Golden Sun is seudo 3D like Mario RPG.

The Playstation and the GBA have proven with good technology behind them, 2D games can look even better than 3D games. Mega Man 8 and the later X series look great for PSX games, Metroid Fusion and Zero Mission are graphically stunning depsite their flatness... and stuff like Yoshi's Island (NOT Story) are works of art.

Anime games should always be 2D as well. Cell shading just doesn't look as nice most of the time (there are some cases that work with cell shading but not all that many).

It's probably because I'm am or at least was a sprite designer but I really have a love for 2D digital art. I'd take it over the lame polygons on a typical PSX, Saturn, and N64 game any day... and probably over some stuff on DC, Xbox, PS2, and GCN.

Is it so wrong to like 2D games?

[Killtacular]

Also Golden Sun...
...sucked.

Is the answer to THAT sentence.

If there's any lack of a modern 2D killer ap, it's because few to none are trying to make such a game.
No excuse.

Mega Man
B-. Repetitive, cheesy AI. If we're talking Megaman Zero. If we're talking about the NES games... B-. Repetitive. Cheesy AI.

Metroid
B+. Not challenging in the least. Excessively short.

Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga
B+. Failed humor. Good combat system. Boring story. Better than Paper Mario, though.

how about all those 2D fighters?
How about D to F-? Only the SNK games offer any real depth. The VS series is a total gimmick/novelty. No game would ever rank above a C, nor would they match Soul Calibur's replayability and ease of control.

You may not think those are champions but plenty of people do.
However they are not games that, if released today, would break the mold, destroy the stereotypes, and sell like hotcakes.

The Playstation and the GBA have proven with good technology behind them, 2D games can look even better than 3D games. Mega Man 8 and the later X series look great for PSX games, Metroid Fusion and Zero Mission are graphically stunning depsite their flatness... and stuff like Yoshi's Island (NOT Story) are works of art.
No. No. No. No. No.

Until 2D evolves beyond archaic concepts like sprites (which should have died out in 1995), 2D will never "look better" than 3D. It will never evolve. It's trapped in retro-conscience. The only reason sprites exist are not because people thought "wow, cool, this is totally artsy and the cool way to do it". They did it because they thought "1980s technology can't replicate our drawings or paintings into a digital form. Our best bet is to devise a system that would temporarily serve as a lo-fi representation of our work while remaining iconic." The fact that sprites are so prevalent in 2D games today (not to mention webcomics) makes me sick. I'd rather come up with a new name for this disgusting recycling of 32 color 16x16 garbage that is done almost entirely pretentiously. Something like "changeophobic gaming".

Anime games should always be 2D as well.
Not all anime is 2D.

Is it so wrong to like 2D games?
Nope! Of course not. They've simply been surpassed.

[Romanesque]

. . .

Well, that was a predictable response.

--Romey

[Sketch]

I don't care if games have depth! I just care if they are fun to play. Mega Man is fun to play. Sure it's the same old thing over and over but it's fun and that's all that matters to me.

Fighting games don't need depth either. The point of them is to wail on eachother. If your into a fighting game for the story then you're playing the wrong genre.

True not all anime are 2D but generally they are. Name a successful FULLY 3D anime.

Super Mario Bros. 3 sold incredibly well. Despite what you may like... a lot of people do love those old simplistic games.

MARIO AND LUIGI IS AWESOME DANG IT!!! It's the a genuinely funny game with a lot of nostalgia as well as new wacky character most never expected to see in a Mario game. It's better than Mario RPG and Paper Mario combined!

Metroid is a great game. It's short yes and I personally wouldn't buy it if I could borrow it (which I did) but it's still a nice romp while it lasts. It's perfect for a gameboy game though. No one really wants to play through a GB game for an exceptionally long time. Few people actually have the time to do that. So short games on the GB are okay as long as they are worth playing a few times through.

Golden Sun didn't suck. It was really fun stuff.

Hi-Res sprites rule! All hail Guilty Gear X!

And on top of all that... I just don't like your opinion on games in general, considering you said Super Mario Bros. was an awful game. (let's not even get started on this one BTW).

But out of curiousity... what are the games that you do like Matt?

[Artimus Gigan]

Ya know I just remembered somthing, sprites havn't been ousted all the way, in many current games, sprites are used in small items or backrounds....

THEY WORK TOGETHER!




and Golden Sun didn't suck...

[Killtacular]

I don't care if games have depth! I just care if they are fun to play. Mega Man is fun to play. Sure it's the same old thing over and over but it's fun and that's all that matters to me.
Then take a time machine back to 1991 because games that have no depth and are simply "fun to play" aren't enough anymore.

Fighting games don't need depth either. The point of them is to wail on each other. If your into a fighting game for the story then you're playing the wrong genre.
You overlooked the main flaw. Aside from a quick 5 minute round of fighting with a friend there is nothing about fighting games that really warrants a purchase. I'd rather just spend 25 cents in an arcade since that would be less of a waste of money. At least Soul Calibur has modes and gametypes that extend the longevity to at least 30 hours.

Super Mario Bros. 3 sold incredibly well. Despite what you may like... a lot of people do love those old simplistic games.
If they did, sales in general would show it. Only reason people buy SMB3 is nostalgia. They're suckered into it every time.

MARIO AND LUIGI IS AWESOME DANG IT!!! It's the a genuinely funny game with a lot of nostalgia as well as new wacky character most never expected to see in a Mario game. It's better than Mario RPG and Paper Mario combined!
Mario RPG had a better combat system and a more interesting story, though there was less of a challenge. Mario and Luigi is very terrible forced humor. Even Fawful seems like a poor attempt to mimic Invader Zim dialogue. But I like Mario and Luigi because it's still enjoyable. Just not A grade.

Golden Sun didn't suck. It was really fun stuff.
Horrible combat system, most generic story ever, most generic characters ever.

Hi-Res sprites rule! All hail Guilty Gear X!
And why is that the ONLY game with hi-res sprites? For some reason, noone has followed Sammy's example. Because it's "cool" to look lo-res and 'retro'. I hope the word nostalgia is banned when the world becomes 1984-ian and Newspeak takes over.

And on top of all that... I just don't like your opinion on games in general, considering you said Super Mario Bros. was an awful game. (let's not even get started on this one BTW).
We won't, but it IS mediocre today.

But out of curiousity... what are the games that you do like Matt?
Games with SOLID play mechanic, engaging storyline, likeable characters, HUMOR THAT WORKS (this seems to not exist in videogames), LONGEVITY, at LEAST moderate challenge, and a DECENT ENDING (this one seems to be impossible for most games).

Prince of Persia is probably the only game that comes close this year. If Beyond Good and Evil were more challenging, longer, and had an ending that didn't last 20 seconds, it would probably be the game of the score (that's 4 years).

[NachoHat]

All I have to add to this conversation is this...


I agree that Golden Sun sucked. So very disappointing. Camelot could have been working on a ridiculously great TRPG instead of Golden Sun. Bah.

[Duke Psychology]

If they did, sales in general would show it. Only reason people buy SMB3 is nostalgia. They're suckered into it every time.

good thing you're so above us, and don't fall for paltry tricks like that.:rolleyes:

i don't understand why people consider Matt Wilson's opinion law. him thinking Golden Sun sucks shouldn't bother anyone. and his opinions are NOT fact. especially when he's in the minority 90% of the time.

for the record, i don't care for Golden Sun either. and i doubt anyone's going to bother me about it. and i'm not foolish enough to claim it as fact. it's just an opinion. JUST AN OPINION. Matt Wilson saying "(insert whatever here) sucked" means NOTHING.

[Artimus Gigan]

Prince of Persia was fairly meh, it was just one big puzzle, and the tower leading up to the final boss was the challange and not the final boss himself, somthing like that irks me a bit. I mean the final boss SHOULD BE in logic THE HARDEST part of the game...

I enjoyed Kya: Dark Lineage more than that game...

[Killtacular]

Prince of Persia was fairly meh, it was just one big puzzle,
That was the point of the franchise.

and the tower leading up to the final boss was the challange and not the final boss himself,
That was the point of the finale.

somthing like that irks me a bit. I mean the final boss SHOULD BE in logic THE HARDEST part of the game...
Not for a game that is more about exploration and physics than combat.

[Artimus Gigan]

That was the point of the franchise.


That was the point of the finale.


Not for a game that is more about exploration and physics than combat.I don't know about the exploration part, granted you could find different ways to solve obsticals, but the levels were a bit confining for the majority. I mean Jak II and Rachet II had more open levels than PoP...

[Killtacular]

Jak and Ratchet are not about exploration. They're about mindless shooting and collecting. PoP had a linear path but regardless it felt more like I was exploring and setting my own path (even though it was really predetermined) with PoP than Jak or Ratchet (both of which aren't too great, though Jak is much better than the latter).

[William C. Maune]

it would probably be the game of the score (that's 4 years).

A score is 20 years, not 4. "Four score and seven years ago..."

[Killtacular]

Then it's the game of the.. olympiad.

[Artimus Gigan]

Jak and Ratchet are not about exploration. They're about mindless shooting and collecting. PoP had a linear path but regardless it felt more like I was exploring and setting my own path (even though it was really predetermined) with PoP than Jak or Ratchet (both of which aren't too great, though Jak is much better than the latter).PoP just had magic in place of different bullets, and swords in place of guns...
Yeah you could forward and reverse time
Which really became somewhat gimmicky towards the end

JakII you had chocies on which levels and missions to do, besides it had a massive overworld....granted you couldn't really do much, but hey the crimsen guard blasting was a fun off-activity...and it did have a certain Total Recall-esque feel to it...

You also said YOU felt like you were exploring your own path...when the game had set phases....
That's clearly a matter of your own perception....

[Invader_Spooch]

I pretty much agree with Matt, though I do like 2D games in theory (I like the art of 2D animation, though it isn't favored by the industry anymore). I wish the 2D games were made with a focus on gameplay, as opposed to nostalgia.

On a side note, I would play King of Fighters over any 3D fighter (save Soul Calibur) any day.

[Artimus Gigan]

Well there's Advance Wars whih was big on Gameplay

But also I wonder why hasn't the Sonic Team made 2-D Sonic game that is within the spirit of the Genesis versions?

I mean they could work wonders with it, I mean the GBA is more powerful than the Genesis, you can hook the GBA up to the cube and play it on a T.V., the GBA itself has more buttons than the Genesis Controlers so all actions and maybe some new ones could be assigned. Now that 4 GBAs can be linked prehaps create a multiplayer quest mode or somthing, similar to how it was incorporated in the 2-player race in Sonic 3. Also they have a wide selection of characters that they could use as player chocies....oh and no SA characters...they're evil and a scourge...


and I'd kill to have Eggman's name be changed back to Robotnik

[Lucky Bob]

You overlooked the main flaw. Aside from a quick 5 minute round of fighting with a friend there is nothing about fighting games that really warrants a purchase. I'd rather just spend 25 cents in an arcade since that would be less of a waste of money. At least Soul Calibur has modes and gametypes that extend the longevity to at least 30 hours.
I'm kinda shooting myself here, taking on The Great One, but...I thought that Super Smash Bros. Melee had good replayability for one player. True, some of the unlockable characters were clones, and there wasn't much of a storyline, if any. But the overall quirky stuff and finding out of new techniques made it a worthwhile purchase. Plus, there's just something comforting about Bowser biting Pickachu's head off.

Games with SOLID play mechanic, engaging storyline, likeable characters, HUMOR THAT WORKS (this seems to not exist in videogames), LONGEVITY, at LEAST moderate challenge, and a DECENT ENDING (this one seems to be impossible for most games).

Here, we agree. Although, we're never going to get HUMOR THAT WORKS as long as games are cookie-cutter translated from their Japanese counterparts. No offense to Japan, but, I've lived in another country long enough to where I know that some types of humor simply do not translate well. (Seeing The Muppet Show with subtitles, *shudder*) There has to be a conscious effort by American game makers to include proper humor in games, or a conscious effort by American offices of foreign countries to rewrite the script enough to make the humor work in American lingo.

But in the meantime, I'm glad that we are at least getting reasonably correct spelling and grammer in translated games. That's a start.

[The Jinjo]

Matt, you've got a few problems with what you're saying. People don't buy old NES games just for the nostalgia. I had never played Super Mario World before, and I got it, and I know lots of people who are buying these games now because they didn't before. And believe it or not, they're good games, ones that have stood the test of time.

next, on to mario and luigi. you may feel it had failed humor, and a bad storyline, but thats just you. that game got nothing but 9's and 10's from all the biggest reviewers. the storyline isnt supposed to be extremely deep, its a mario game. and the humor isnt supposed to be laugh out loud, its just some light humor to keep the experience entertaining. it's an rpg that doesnt take itself seriously, and thats why its so great. you may disagree, but the majority of people wont. and thats what makes a game remembered, when many people like it.

And finally.....Golden Sun sucked... hah.

[Artimus Gigan]

And finally.....Golden Sun sucked... hah.http://img1.photobucket.com/albums/v40/00pie/itstheboom.bmp
*manic laughter*

Anyways most of the 2D games that are on consoles are collections of games from an earlier era that already have an established fan base.

Granted that you can't do as much with 2D/ 2andahalfD as you can with 3D, consoles don't really use 2D because the systwems can now push the graphics well beyond the realms of sprites.

But still 2D games are where the roots of game graphics are, they're are an important factor in the evolution of games, you can still do stuff with them even today...

[Proto DUDE]

Here's my thought:

2-D or 3-D doesn't matter in theory. It matters on how the graphics look. I mean, if a 3-D game looks like crap, than 2-D is better. But if the 3-D game is beautiful, than 3-D is better. 'Nuff said.

[UberMonkey]

Boy did this go off topic. More fuel to the fire:

So, Matt, what's the champion of 3D gaming? You've thrown down a pretty big challenge here. For the meantime, I'm going to say Prince of Persia would be your choice, although you're welcome to prove me wrong here.

Personally, yes, I thought it was a good game. But then I liked a lot of the GBA games on which we apparently do not agree on (I really liked Mario & Luigi's battle system. The active timing required to pull off stuff like the advanced Bros. attacks seem much more interesting than what I remember from Legend of the Seven Stars. Not to mention that Pre-rendered stuff is really lame, while M&L had an interesting new style that didn't violate the look of the Mario franchise.) Artimus brought up some valid reasons why he DIDN'T like the game, and you've simply said "Oh, that's because it's supposed to be like that" to justify everything. Surely you can see the weakness in that argument. I could easily say "Oh, well, you see, Golden Sun sucking is the point of the franchise. It's supposed to be like that. Generic characters make perfect sense in the context of the game. YOUR ARGUMENTS MEAN NOTHING!" See? Easy as pie.

This is all a matter of opinion, of course. I wouldn't say having an extra dimension makes games better or worse. I do wish 2D gaming stays around, not just for nostalgia, either, but because I don't think it's dead. It can evolve, and to think that it couldn't simply means you can't think of a way how. I'd like to believe innovation hasn't been completely lost on game makers. Obviously this footage has shown us that having decent looking 3D games on the go is in the immediate future. But that doesn't mean that every game maker has to invision their games as being 3D. They could think that "wow, cool, this is totally artsy and the cool way to do it" and make a wonderful 2D game that's liked by many for good reason - a game that meets all of those requirements you listed. None of those screamed the necessity of being 3D to me. I could argue that the only reason you don't believe any 2D game like that exists is because you're "anti-retro." But I know that's ridiculous. It's just your opinion to not like any of them (much). Just like it's mine to be very happy with them.

[Killtacular]

I'm not against 2D games because they're 2D. I'm against them because they insist on being trapped in the past, relying on archaic gaming traditions rather than trying something new and original.

The only fresh, engaging 2D game of the past 4 years, I'd say, is Wario Ware. That's it. There are decent 2D games out there but, they're nothing special. I'd say that 2D games are in as bad as a rut as they were in 1994 when a whole slew of horrible titles befell the Genesis and SNES, except that 2D games are in a WORSE rut because there are games that are BETTER now, that have EVOLVED and ADVANCED beyond generic practices as "point A to point B".

It's not because they're 3D. It's because companies put care and effort into games when they're 3D, and don't when they're 2D. They know that people will always buy 2D games as long as they have crappy sprites and dinky music. People's expectations of 2D games are low. They are. People don't expect a 2D game to have a great story anymore, or depth, or ingenious level designs or character buildings or fun powerups or gimmicks. They just expect a lighthearted romp of 10 or so small levels that are nothing special but WOW THEY'RE 2D!! I'm, of course, talking about platformers. Advance Wars probably has the console market cornered on strategy (of course PC strategy games far outrank it). Again... that's it.

Let's see.. recent 2D games... Yu-Gi-Oh... Sonic Battle (9_9)... ports of Sim City and Max Payne... Cat in the Hat.. Back in Action.. Ozzy & Drix.. oh a sequel to Pitfall the Mayan Adventure... uh.. I don't think so. See? Companies don't care. 2D's dead, folks. Until a 2D game can adopt the methods of storytelling and game construction that 3D games have brought into the mix (AND I DON'T MEAN 3D ITSELF), it's going to be presently inferior. And it is. Right now. Inferior. Sucks, but deal with it. 10 years ago, 2D was obviously superior to 3D (4D Boxing? come on). But that was 10 years ago. And trying to say 2D is alive by referencing games from 10 years ago, is going to be fundamentally invalid. Not that people have, but I know it's going to happen.

2D isn't inferior because it's 2D, but because it's treated like it could never be superior. Noone tries. NOONE tries. Except possibly Konami and Nintendo.

Do you understand what I'm trying to say? Part of it is your, the consumer's, fault. By buying some of these mediocre games just to support 2D you're actually hurting 2D by setting the standards lower. Companies know people will buy these average C-grade titles, so they won't even try to put out A-rate games.

[Artimus Gigan]

I'm not against 2D games because they're 2D. I'm against them because they insist on being trapped in the past, relying on archaic gaming traditions rather than trying something new and original.

The only fresh, engaging 2D game of the past 4 years, I'd say, is Wario Ware. That's it. There are decent 2D games out there but, they're nothing special. I'd say that 2D games are in as bad as a rut as they were in 1994 when a whole slew of horrible titles befell the Genesis and SNES, except that 2D games are in a WORSE rut because there are games that are BETTER now, that have EVOLVED and ADVANCED beyond generic practices as "point A to point B".

It's not because they're 3D. It's because companies put care and effort into games when they're 3D, and don't when they're 2D. They know that people will always buy 2D games as long as they have crappy sprites and dinky music. People's expectations of 2D games are low. They are. People don't expect a 2D game to have a great story anymore, or depth, or ingenious level designs or character buildings or fun powerups or gimmicks. They just expect a lighthearted romp of 10 or so small levels that are nothing special but WOW THEY'RE 2D!! I'm, of course, talking about platformers. Advance Wars probably has the console market cornered on strategy (of course PC strategy games far outrank it). Again... that's it.

Let's see.. recent 2D games... Yu-Gi-Oh... Sonic Battle (9_9)... ports of Sim City and Max Payne... Cat in the Hat.. Back in Action.. Ozzy & Drix.. oh a sequel to Pitfall the Mayan Adventure... uh.. I don't think so. See? Companies don't care. 2D's dead, folks. Until a 2D game can adopt the methods of storytelling and game construction that 3D games have brought into the mix (AND I DON'T MEAN 3D ITSELF), it's going to be presently inferior. And it is. Right now. Inferior. Sucks, but deal with it. 10 years ago, 2D was obviously superior to 3D (4D Boxing? come on). But that was 10 years ago. And trying to say 2D is alive by referencing games from 10 years ago, is going to be fundamentally invalid. Not that people have, but I know it's going to happen.

2D isn't inferior because it's 2D, but because it's treated like it could never be superior. Noone tries. NOONE tries. Except possibly Konami and Nintendo.

Do you understand what I'm trying to say? Part of it is your, the consumer's, fault. By buying some of these mediocre games just to support 2D you're actually hurting 2D by setting the standards lower. Companies know people will buy these average C-grade titles, so they won't even try to put out A-rate games.
Well Warioware has already gained steam, also the eyetoy which is just 2D games, granted their nothing deep, but the eye toy has also gained a fan base quite similar to the one that DDR gained.

[Killtacular]

Well Warioware has already gained steam, also the eyetoy which is just 2D games, granted their nothing deep, but the eye toy has also gained a fan base quite similar to the one that DDR gained.
None of these will have any effect on the declining spiral. Wario Ware is nothing more than a cult hit. Eye Toy is too much of a novelty. And I don't know anyone who owns it.

[Artimus Gigan]

Sometimes Cult Hits have a tendency to have their second bite be the hardest the first breeds the infection, the second spreads. Also alot of people thought things like force feedback were novelty features also the DDR pad...but both have been doing very well...

I mean force feedback is expected these days....no controleration without rumblisation....

[Killtacular]

Sometimes Cult Hits have a tendency to have their second bite be the hardest the first breeds the infection, the second spreads. Also alot of people thought things like force feedback were novelty features also the DDR pad...but both have been doing very well...

I mean force feedback is expected these days....no controleration without rumblisation....
The Eye Toy isn't providing a new novelty but one that has been recycled for at least a decade and a half. It's very unlikely to catch on since it never has in the past. Such technology is pretty much relegated to 2 dollar arcade game experiences. Noone wants to "be in the game" anymore. Nick Arcade would still be on the air if that were true.

[Artimus Gigan]

The Eye Toy isn't providing a new novelty but one that has been recycled for at least a decade and a half. It's very unlikely to catch on since it never has in the past. Such technology is pretty much relegated to 2 dollar arcade game experiences. Noone wants to "be in the game" anymore. Nick Arcade would still be on the air if that were true.Nick Arcade was incredibly stupid with the Adventures of Mikey

Eye Toy bagged it right because it was in the right place at the right time.

I mean just because technology isn't new doesn't mean it's doomed to obscurity..

I mean the original gameboy had alot of years on it...

[Lucky Bob]

The Eye Toy isn't providing a new novelty but one that has been recycled for at least a decade and a half. It's very unlikely to catch on since it never has in the past. Such technology is pretty much relegated to 2 dollar arcade game experiences. Noone wants to "be in the game" anymore. Nick Arcade would still be on the air if that were true.Technology that's slow to catch on? Two words: C-D

Eye Toy's a great idea, and one that should have been picked up by Nintendo, IMHO. I think that if more mainstream companies like EA would develop games for it, it would be a household item. I don't like, however, how long it's taken. Will it be scrapped when the PS3 is released? I hope not. I want to be able to bite Mike Tyson's ear off personally when Knockout Kings 2005 comes out.

[nessinka]

I've found this download site for old 4D Boxing (PC version):
[URL REMOVED]

[Killtacular]

I've found this download site for old 4D Boxing (PC version):
[URL REMOVED]
..come again?