Hollywood To Blame?

[James Harvey]

Director Robert Altman blasted Hollywood pretty harshly today by saying violent movies are directly involved in the terrorisits attacks currently gripping the great nation. Here's the article from www.zap2it.com :

Oscar®-nominated director Robert
Altman ("Dr. T. and the Women")
has placed blame on Hollywood for
"inspiring" the recent attacks on
the United States, according to the
BBC online.

"Nobody would have thought to
commit an atrocity like that unless
they'd seen it in a movie," said
Altman.

The prolific director claims that
violent blockbusters "taught them
how to do it" and that Hollywood
now has to stop making films
showing mass destruction. "The
movies set the pattern, and these
people have copied the movies," he
said.

The 76-year-old director said that violent action films that contain massive destruction
and explosions — which are generally targeted at young men — are tantamount to
training films for such bold attacks.

"How dare we continue to show this kind of mass destruction in movies? I just believe
we created this atmosphere and taught them how to do it," he said.

Since the Sept. 11 attacks, many Hollywood productions have been changed, pushed
back or scrapped all together because of their similarities to the terrorists attacks that
day.

Altman's hope is that the footage of the attacks and their aftermath on TV will put
audiences more in the mood for thoughtful, character-based films.

"Maybe there's a chance to get back to... grown-up films — anything that uses humor
and dramatic values to deal with human emotions and gets down to what people are to
people," he said.

Altman's next film is "Gosford Park," a 1930s murder mystery set in aristocratic
England starring Kristin Scott Thomas, Emily Watson and Stephen Fry and will
premiere at the London Film Festival on Nov. 7.

Let the (PG level) comment begin...

[batboy2001]

Okay, this is just stupid, I highly doupt terrorist watch American movies first of all. I think overly violent movies DO sometimes encourage some kids to do violent acts. But to say violent movies caused terrorism! It is reduculious.

[Calhoun07]

I made the point on the JL board but will bring it up here since it is relevant. Mankind has quite a dark nature at heart. I am not saying people are evil, but we all have the capacity for a dark side, and I think that in our darkest crevices of our hearts, we know what evil man is capable of. We know what mass destruction few can devastate upon this world, and we know what twisted ways people can come up with to kill other people, and to deal with this inherent darkness, we put these ideas from our nightmares and crazy imaginations into movies as "entertainment" in a way to deal with them. Or we would likely go insane. So when some terrorist comes up with something we've been putting in our movies for years, it's not that he's inspired by those movies, but he is motivated by that same darkness at heart that we stifle and push down and express in varying ways, but we express them nonetheless. And I think that man's greatest fear isn't the potential for another attack like Spet 11, or Anthrax, or a nuclear attack, but that maybe, just maybe, the heart behind the eyes of our enemy may not be all that different from the heart behind our eyes, and the differences between us and them is the way we express that darkness.

And those who don't know how to deal with this fact and want to deny that they have darkness too will come up with attacks against the media.

[Captain Caps]

Sorry, had to get a Howard Jones ref in there, somehow.

Anyway, I think it came out of the hatred inside, and not out of a movie screen. Some cases may have sprang from movies, but for the most part, I see no connection.

Sincerely,

John "Captain Caps" Kilduff

[JustJack]

Oh come on guys..maybe he has a point? I mean..I can't even describe how many times I've watched "Air Force 1" and have wanted to highjack Air Force 1. Or the many times that I've watched "Silence of the Lambs" and have wanted to hunt someone down, torture them, then eat them! I mean..c'mon! That stuff just looks fun!

haha..

now..seriously. This is a load of SH...err...crud. Anyone who's to dumb to decifer between reality and movies shouldn't be apart of society. But, overall..I think everyone is AT LEAST smarter than that. Besides, Hollywood is often asked to not use "100% accurate" information on designing bombs n' such for terrorist movies. Still..

Hollywood isn't to blame. Ignorance is a big part to blame. If terrorism is your only way of trying to figure through a situation...you deserve to be caught & put on trial. Simple. Of course...there are those people who are simply insane, & wana just do it all for fun. But you can't prevent them from doing anything, really..but still..

Stop blaming Hollywood! That's a simple-minded mans way out of a bad situation. You can't raise your own children right? What to do? Blame hollywood! works every time..

[Trent Lane]

Didn't they same the same about music when those kids shot up the schools? It's just a way to make excuses for what goes on in this world...

[batboy2001]

So, then what is to blame? When someone murders, why did they do it? When someone shoots a school to pieces, why? There must be some reason, as you probaly know, I am a christian. But, in you guys view, then why do ppl do theses things? I am not trying to be rude or anything, I honestly want to know.

[DR. BELCH]

One one hand, I seriously doubt Bin Laden's goons are sitting about in caves and ditches watching American B-movies and Saturday morning cartoons. Isn't watching TV against their religion or something? And anyway, how can they afford TVs, VCRs, and elecricity to power them? Aren't they poor as dogcrap over there (well, except for Bin Laden himself, who's obviously wealthy and well-connected)in Afganistan?

On the other hand, there are any number of terrorists right in our own backyard...and any number of sick psychotics, any darn one with an axe to grind who'd think nothing of implementing a scheme he might have nicked off some movie or TV show. Not to mention copycats who want to see their names/deeds in the paper. How many of us haven't toyed with the idea of mailing our worst enemy an envelope full of baking soda or baby powder just to scare the frig out of them? Of course we're moral enough not to do such a thing, or figure we aren't slick enough to not get caught, so we don't.

It's a question of moral fiber. If you scatter ten thousand seeds and one or two lands in poison soil, creating stickerbush weeds, those are the ones that come back to haunt you...especially if the accused tells the cops and the psychiatrists, when they ask why he did it, "Oh, I saw it in an episode of Everybody Loves Raymond (to pick a show at random)."

Cal is right; human psychology is very complex. As a writer I have created innumerable depraved scenrios and sometimes have to be very certain they aren't imitatable. Stephen King once wrote a story about a man who gets revenge on a crime boss that murdered his wife by laying a pit trap for him under a country highway and burying him in it alive when he falls in. He admitted in the comments section of the book that he had to work to fudge a few of the details so that if someone actually tried such a thing it'd fail, and make it sound so unpleasant and arduous (the main character puts himself through hell and ruins his back in the name of vengeance) that the reader would think twice if he actually desired to do such a damnable thing.
The idea may have come from something some schmuck read or saw...but the act is entirely his, and should be prosecuted/punished as an act, irregardless.

[Joe Tully]

The people who do it are to blame. I think that we seem to have trouble admitting that it is the kids who decide to do this. Movies don't force kids to do this stuff, and the kids that do that stuff aren't so stupid that they can't differentiate between right and wrong. Most kids learn at a very young age what is right and what is wrong. If you are raised properly, the by the time that you are a few years old, you know that it is wrong to lie or steal. Your personality is determined at a very young age, and if you are not able to understand what is right or wrong by, say, age 12 at the absolute latest, it is very likely that you will never learn. You need to learn this difference at a very young age and, as many others have said, this is the responsibility of your parents. The parents need to explain to kids the difference between right and wrong and punish them when they cross that line. Granted, most parents will not have to worry about punishing their young kids for murder, but punishing them for hurting one another is certainly a step in the right direction.

Part of the problem could also possibly be genetic, and could be difficult, if not impossible to control. But I feel that a lot of this problem must be societal. I mean, Japan has some of the most incredibly violent stuff on TV, and yet I understand that they are much more peaceful than citizens of most other countries. I don't know what it is with our society that differentiates it from Japan's in this one aspect...A sense of honor is a big part of Japan's culture, so it could very well have to do with that. America has different beliefs than Japan and couldn't teach its children a sense of honor in the same way, but I think that if parents were to take the time they could get the same result. Part of this would be teaching by example...I could start a list of examples of how Americans are rude, but this post is already getting too lengthy. (Americans in traffic alone would require 5 or 6 pages)

So, looking back at my post, I guess the ones to blame are the children themselves. However, as the children are greatly affected by their parents, if you want to stop problems like this at the source, you need to get parents to instill a sense of right and wrong in their kids.

[Calhoun07]

Originally posted by batboy2001
So, then what is to blame? When someone murders, why did they do it? When someone shoots a school to pieces, why? There must be some reason, as you probaly know, I am a christian. But, in you guys view, then why do ppl do theses things? I am not trying to be rude or anything, I honestly want to know.

This is the last question I would expect from a Christian. Nothing personal, mind you, but I figured if anybody has a grasp on the fallen state of man kind, it would be Christians. Not to stereotype or single anybody out, of course, but because that's what the whole religion is based on, one man dying for the fallen nature of an entire planet of people, past and present and future. That's pretty powerful. People do such things because man kind chose to break free of paradise and to exercise their free will over God's, and man's free will includes a lot of dark things, such as greed, and lust, and murder, and larceny, and theft, and you name it. Who is to blame? We all are, really. We are all part of the fallen human race and to point blame in somebody else's direction for sins and transgressions that we are all guilty of is wrong.

[BourgeoisBuffoon]

All the good points to argue with are taken....;)

No, this is junk. People are psychotic, yes. But honestly, they make up a small amount of the population. Many crimes they try to commit are foiled. And I doubt the terrorists would get ideas from this, they've been planning this before the blockbuster became a household name.

Besides, here's a good metaphor I read in a SAT essay about someone's bookstore: "Marxists may complain about capitalists bookstores selling anything they want, but Marxists must step lightly around the fact thier books make up a good part of the Socialigy section...which sell well in that section."....why is a DIRECTOR complaining? He makes movies too, for crying out loud!

[batboy2001]

This is the last question I would expect from a Christian. Nothing personal, mind you, but I figured if anybody has a grasp on the fallen state of man kind, it would be Christians. Not to stereotype or single anybody out, of course, but because that's what the whole religion is based on, one man dying for the fallen nature of an entire planet of people, past and present and future. That's pretty powerful. People do such things because man kind chose to break free of paradise and to exercise their free will over God's, and man's free will includes a lot of dark things, such as greed, and lust, and murder, and larceny, and theft, and you name it. Who is to blame? We all are, really. We are all part of the fallen human race and to point blame in somebody else's direction for sins and transgressions that we are all guilty of is wrong. I was wondering what non christians thought. I mean, what do you mean by "bad parenting"?

[Calhoun07]

Ohhh..don't get me started on the subject of parents and their kids! I heard of once instance here recently where a couple kids placed a package with white powder in it outside their school just to get the day off, and now I heard the authorities are talking about punishing the parents. I know that parents have to answer for their kids actions, but those kids are the ones who chose to do that act, and they are the ones that should suffer the consequences. And in this time when Ashcroft is talking about putting people in prison for 20 years for hoaxes, I don't think it would be right to inflict that upon the parents. I doubt very highly that they encouraged their kids to do that. Sometimes even the best parents have dumb asses for kids, and it's not their fault. People need to learn to answer for themselves, even teen agers.

[batboy2001]

I totally agree with that.

[Failure]

Bogus. Let's not give Hollywood all the credit for this, I think the terrorists deserve some of it. I dunno, this is the same kind of argument you hear over and over when something catastrophic happens. With the school shootings it's the music with the plane crashings it's the Hollywood industry. But I dont think we can pinpoint a scapegoat for all this. There's a million different factors that go into it. The person themselves, their family, their environment, all these have closer ties to their lives than movies and music. People have a bad reputation for being mindless sheep, but actually, they are rather rational. If we want to blame someone blame Bin Laden, blame the hijackers, dont blame something that doesnt deserve the blame just because they're easy to blame.

I mailed something at the post office today, the thought of handing the postal people an enveloped doused in flour to see how they would react, crossed my mind. However, I'm not going to do that because (A) I'm not an idiot and (b) I have a moral conscience. I'm sure others have gone into stadiums and thought how easy it would be to get a gun in there and mow down all the players and such. And so on and so on. Anybody and everybody can think up plenty of ways to do some catastrophic damage. With or without the help of Hollywood or music or whatever. But like Cal said, people have dark sides, it's how you express them that determines the kind of person you are.

[Failure]

Originally posted by calhoun07
Ohhh..don't get me started on the subject of parents and their kids! I heard of once instance here recently where a couple kids placed a package with white powder in it outside their school just to get the day off, and now I heard the authorities are talking about punishing the parents. I know that parents have to answer for their kids actions, but those kids are the ones who chose to do that act, and they are the ones that should suffer the consequences. And in this time when Ashcroft is talking about putting people in prison for 20 years for hoaxes, I don't think it would be right to inflict that upon the parents. I doubt very highly that they encouraged their kids to do that. Sometimes even the best parents have dumb asses for kids, and it's not their fault. People need to learn to answer for themselves, even teen agers.

But shouldnt the parents be held somewhat responsible? Even if they didnt encourage their kids to do that (I mean, I'm pretty sure very few parents go around encourage their kids to commit crimes), if they had taught them well enough, then the kids themselves should have been able to realize they shouldnt do it.

Now, I'm aware that sometimes good parents can have idiot kids. That's my worry, that one day in the future (way long in the future) I'll be as good a parent as I can be, but my kid'll turn out to be a total yutz. But I think, in general, the parents who do a "good job" of parenting end up with "well-adjusted" kids.

[Joe Tully]

Originally posted by Failure


But shouldnt the parents be held somewhat responsible? Even if they didnt encourage their kids to do that (I mean, I'm pretty sure very few parents go around encourage their kids to commit crimes), if they had taught them well enough, then the kids themselves should have been able to realize they shouldnt do it.


That's not really fair, though. Like you and calhoun say, sometimes parents can't do anything about it, a certain percent of kids are just destined to be jerks. And even if the parents were irresponsible for not bringing up their kids right, it's just wrong that anyone should have to be punished for something they didn't do (In this case, parents being punished for actions done by their kids and not them). At this point, the damage has been done anyways. They have raised the kids up to be idiots, and I don't think that punishing them will change the kids. At this point, the kids are messed up, and maybe the only thing that can make them realize the mistakes they are making is some serious punishment, whether it be community service or juvenile hall.

They will probably face a punishment anyways. I don't think that the other parents in the class will greet you at the supermarket the same way when your kids are known as the ones who faked an Anthrax attack.

[Failure]

Well, I guess it depends on a case by case basis. A broad sweeping punishing of parents based on their kids' actions would be unfair. In this case, I get the impression there wasn't any malicious intent involved. Just a couple of kids who did a very, very stupid prank. They should be punished for what they did not their parent. However, Ashcroft is nuts. They dont deserve 20 years of jail time for this. Some kind of fine and community service is probably enough.

[The Mad Hatter]

The director's comments just sound like another futile attempt to make sense of all this. Which is human nature... if we feel like we can pinpoint exactly what causes horrible acts, we can try to prevent them from happening again, and perhaps get some sense of closure. But... sometimes there aren't any easy answers. Sometimes mass murderers do it just because they enjoy it. And I don't think we'll get any easy answers on the terrorists' motivations, either. They say that they were ready to die for their religion, yet many of them frequented strip clubs (which is 31 flavors of wrong, according to Islam). We may never be able to truly fathom their mindsets.

[RockItShipper]

First off, I think studios are shying away from mass destruction movies in the wake of this to begin with.

Second, I don't recall the WTC towers as having been shown being destroyed in the movies. A movie-style spectacle may have been the intent of the terrorists, but I imagine that the fact that there was no movie footage to compete with it helped maybe. I don't know what, if anything, the terrorists watch. They could prefer reading the Koran or watching Teletubbies, y;know? I just don't know.

But Robert Altman is pretty much talking out of his ass.

[Maxie Zeus]

Well first of all, Altman seems to be making a much narrower point than people here are crediting him with. He is not claiming (that I can tell) that watching action movies caused the terrorists to do this, but that spectacles of mass destruction (like "ID4" or "Armageddon") played a part in inspiring this particular tactic. Taught them to think big, so to speak.

Well, like everyone else I'm skeptical. The nihilism at work in these people doesn't need a particular goad or inspiration to think in terms of mass destruction; and if they have close connections to state intelligence services (as seems increasingly likely given what we know about the high-grade quality of anthrax sent to Capitol Hill) then you've got experts trained at thinking of horrible things to do. The emphasis on mindless destruction in the kind of films Altman decries may be a sign of coarseness (in the films, in the filmmakers, in Hollywood, in the culture, whatever) but it does not mean that the people who perpetrated this weren't coarse to begin with.

[optimal321]

Not much else is left to say. So i'll be brief.

Acceptance of responsibility is a trait that many more people need. I doubt that the point of The Matrix was to teach kids it's okay to bring guns in school and pointlessly kill innocent children. I doubt that Tinkie-Winkie is teaching kids to be homosexual. I doubt that bin Laudin saw an American film and suddenly came up w/ the idea of crashing planes into important U.S. structures.

I do not doubt that the media is an easy scapegoat. I do not doubt that it is the parents' responsibility to teach their kids right from wrong; fantasy from reality. I do not doubt that there are some people who are going to end up causing trouble regardless of anything. And most of all, i do not doubt that the responsibility lies foremost on one person. The individual who did a terrible act.

The end.

[Calhoun07]

This makes me begin to wonder if Altman is now thinking that the Koreans travelled forward in time to watch his movie MASH because the Korean War could have only been dreamed up by somebody who watched Hollywood movies!

You have to admit he gives Hollywood quite a bit of credit here, and that being that they created all the evil in this world. I wonder if there was any evil before Hollywood?