the art of language

[Bound High]

I had never seen Dora the explorer. I thought it was a show for teaching hispanic toddlers english but actually I found it was for teaching english speaking toddlers spanish. All they really need to understand is taco, burrito, fajita, and taquito when they pull up at Taco Bell's drive thru.

I have heard that some elementary schools are forcing kids to learn Spanish.
When I was taught a foreign language it wasn't until 7th grade and I was given a choice of Spanish, Italian, German, or French. I am against teaching children a second language if they are having difficulties with their first just to please some multi-cult agenda. I am in support of teaching children at a young age through the schools another language but they should be given options. They shouldn't be forced into a language though I realize some school districts are too small or too poor to offer options. If they are in such a state then they should be allowed to just skip it. It is far from being a necessity. There is plenty of English literature they could learn instead. Schools are so pressed for time anyway that it is a little ridiculous to waste time by teaching a language the kids won't even use.

[Elven Moon]

I was taught a little bit of French when I was in Elementary school, though I don't really remember any of it :o

[Singin' Stray Cat]

Forced? I haven't heard of anything like this, actually.

I have heard that learning a second language at almost any age, but especially in elementary school, actually helps facilitate learning of one's own native language. English incorporates a lot of foreign phrases directly from French (faux pas), Latin (carpe diem), and other languages. Not only that, but many English words have their roots in other words from different languages - so if and when you come across an unfamiliar English word, if you know the root, you already have some idea what the new word means. Example: Sartorial, word meaning "of or relating to clothes," comes from the Latin word sartor, meaning "tailor."

Also, I think it's important to learn at least one other language besides your own for business reasons - almost all companies now have branches in different countries. Learning how to speak Spanish, French, Japanese, or just about any other language can help get you a job.

I took a Spanish class when I was in second grade (although, admittedly, I don't remember most of what I learned). This would have been roughly 15-16 years ago, by the way, well before Dora came on TV. It made sense to have a class at that early age though, because at the time I lived in El Paso, Texas, which is right next to the Mexican border. Which basically meant I was living around many people whose primary language was Spanish. So why not have a Spanish class then? Might as well be able to communicate with everyone around you, not just the English-speaking people.

What I'm trying to say is, there are other benefits from learning a language than just learning the language itself. And that goes for just about any age and any learning capacity, I think. :D Same goes for learning music, art, or any other "extra" classes.

[Chris Wood]

I think it's great that elementary school kids are learning a second language. Personally I took some French lessons starting around 4th grade. Foreign language education is so weak in this country. The Europeans run circles around us. Foreign language learning should definitely be mandatory in grades 7-12 (college too maybe).

Now, as far as which language should be learned, this is a much grayer area. I suppose for elementary students it's really only practical to offer a single language. What should it be? Well, I'm not a big fan of Spanish, but in the America of today this is probably the most reasonable option. Then in junior high students should be given the option of several languages, perhaps:

Spanish
Japanese
German
French
Italian
Chinese

[Roman Legion]

Has anyone ever actually learned to speak fluent Spanish (or any other language) through educational television or school studies? Intuition tells me the number who have must be incredibly small, and I'd be curious to see some actual data. I've no doubt that it can help expand a person's vocabulary, but there are more efficient and effective means to reach that particular end...

Anyway, I wouldn't call this being "forced" to learn a second language. More often than not, I'd call it being "forced" to sit through something that you may gain nothing from, will probably never use, and will ultimately forget.

A lot of people have languages they would really like to learn, but it's not possible for most educational institutions (even public broadcasting) to cater to every individual language preference. IMO, only offering a limited selection and requiring students to learn one of those selections results in one big waste of time.

Most people will only learn a language when they have to learn it, by being placed in a "sink or swim" situation. If someone is raised in an environment where they have to juggle as many as three languages to get by (places like India come to mind), then the majority in that situation will learn. However, if you place people in a class a few times a week, there will be no constant pressure to adapt, and most will not learn.

In short, I'm against manditory second language requirements, but I'm quite in favor of shipping people to live overseas (with preparation), whenever possible. ;-)

--Romey

[Classic Speedy]

Children learn better than adults. In theory, it would make sense to teach a foreign language early on (atleast the basics, nothing TOO difficult)- I have a feeling that less people would flunk Spanish in high school/college if they had experience early on.

[Roman Legion]

Children learn better than adults. In theory, it would make sense to teach a foreign language early on (atleast the basics, nothing TOO difficult)- I have a feeling that less people would flunk Spanish in high school/college if they had experience early on.

Maybe not. The mind of a child is a fluid thing. It learns with relative ease, but it can forget too. For instance, consider immigrants as old as eight who come to the US, and forget most (sometimes all) of their first language by the time they become adults, even if they continue to grow up in the presence of their native-language-speaking parents.

I suppose they might have an easier time learning something the second time around, but like many skills, language comes down to "use it or lose it".

--Romey

[Chris Wood]

In short, I'm against manditory second language requirements,
--Romey
Why? It's weak that most Americans speak only English. When I was studying in Japan, I met a lot of European students. Some Swedes for example, were not only studying Japanese with me but already spoke nearly perfect English and French in addition to their native Swedish. I felt embarrassed to have only English to communicate with them in.

There's no reason everyone can't have a solid background in two languages. It's not only important for the global economy, but also the more the world speaks the same languages the closer it can become.

[Nightflower]

Here in Canada, I had regular French lessons since kindergarten, I think. I used to go to Chinese school 'cause my mom made me, but I didn't go for very long.

[Roman Legion]

Why?

Didn't I just get through explaning that? :p


It's weak that most Americans speak only English.

Yes, it is. I never disagreed with that. I just don't believe mandatory foreign language classes alone are an effective way of helping.


When I was studying in Japan, I met a lot of European students. Some Swedes for example, were not only studying Japanese with me but already spoke nearly perfect English and French in addition to their native Swedish.

How likely is it that these Swedes had a need to know English, or at least had a lot more pressure on them to learn English than the average student in the US has to learn Swedish?


There's no reason everyone can't have a solid background in two languages.

When there's a need for it, it will happen. Until then, it won't.


It's not only important for the global economy, but also the more the world speaks the same languages the closer it can become.

Don't worry, in another 100 years or so, everyone will speak English, and we'll all be very close, globally. I know, that's not what you meant... :p

You want people to learn a second language? Great! So work on creating a need to know that second language. Merely telling people that something's important and forcing them to take a few classes isn't enough to get most people to learn it, though... and that's the only point I'm trying to make.

--Romey

[Magwheel]

I started learning French in grade 3, and continued till grade 12, though I could have stopped after grade 11. It was a good foundation, though I would have preferred to have started earlier (see below), or taken French Immersion (it helped a few of my friends). It wasn't till I had been immersed in a mostly French community for 2 years that I really started to be really fluent, though. And the hundreds of local accents are a different story all together :p

As far as when the best time is to learn... the part of the brain that handles language learning slows down, and it becomes a different task all together, as we grow up. Here's a breif article I just found (via a google search) on it: http://www.cal.org/earlylang/benrsr.htm. I dunno about the site's credentials or motivations, or politics, but I had already heard the same thing in several places, and I can see how it's true withing my circle of acquaintences. Of course, you could say the same about most skills... *shrugs*

I'll second what Desslar said in his second post, too. Related to that, standards/expectations are low for English people, becuase we don't HAVE to learn another language to get by, in most places. So people are usually just tickled pink and very impressed when we can speak their language at all, or at least care enough to try :p

However, I can't say whether little kids should be forced to *learn another language" in struggling public schools. I just know that an early introduction helps when available. *shrugs, again*

[Chris Wood]

You want people to learn a second language? Great! So work on creating a need to know that second language. Merely telling people that something's important and forcing them to take a few classes isn't enough to get most people to learn it, though... and that's the only point I'm trying to make.

--Romey
Don't be silly. You know there's a need, unless you are one of those Bush isolationist types. 6 years of daily classes should be enough to achieve basic competency in a foreign language.

[Roman Legion]

Don't be silly. You know there's a need.

I'm not being silly; you're just completely misinterpreting my use of the word "need". Yes, there is a global need for the english speaking world to expand its language abilities (though that need is decreasing, perhaps unfortunately). The global need does not, however, translate into the sort of local, everyday need that I'm saying has to be in place for the average person to adopt a new language.


6 years of daily classes should be enough to achieve basic competency in a foreign language.

Perhaps for a few, but without the pressure to exercise those language skills outside the foreign language classroom, I really don't believe it will do a whole lot of good. What it will do is punish those who can't keep up with the requirement, which I suspect will be the majority.

--Romey

[SSJPabs]

Hmm isn't it like reading and playing music? I mean, that if you learn a second language while young, you just plain think better than those who don't becase your brain is exercising itself more.

Hmm not sure. I'm slowly learning Chinese to go with the fluent Spanish and English...