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  1. #101
    VladDraculi is offline Member
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    Let me first say that the Artificial Human/Cell arc has got to me my favorite arc of this series thus far. I am loving this It is funny too because the Red Ribbon Saga was my favorite arc of DB and now the remnants of them (which is awesome) ends up being my favorite part of this series. I really loved 18 and 17 as characters as I was expecting them to just be boring robots. Of course, they aren't really just robots, are they? Which makes me wonder, why do they call them Androids in English? Androids means just a robot with human-looking skin on them. They are more like cyborgs because cyborgs are part human, part machine.

    Trunks is becoming a fantastic character as well as he seems to be so full of depth due to his future being completely different. I will admit, I was a little taken aback at first that the Artificial Humans were an old dude and Kim Jong Un that Trunks feared, but I loved how they state messing with time can alter history ala the butterfly effect. A Sound of Thunder, much?

    No. 16 seems pretty cool and I love that he is voiced by Gundam Wing's Heero Yuy. On the other hand, I can't say I am a fan of Cell's voice. At least for his first two forms, but it fits better with his Perfect form. Nevertheless, I like Cell, but the stuff with him in his second form was a complete bore to sit through. It also doesn't help that his form was ugly as hell. My other issue with Cell is that he just seems to be Freeza 2.0. "Oh, you can't beat my next form." I liked it better when these dudes did not have multiple forms and relied on their skills to win ala Goku vs Piccolo. i also don't understand why his first form seemed to be his most threatening one, yet, they changed him.

    One other thing I will say I am a little disappointed with is it seems like the series is now just a bunch of training montages needed to beat the next villain. There is no longer an sense of adventure in the series. Is Toriyama's world just that boring? I want to know why there are dinosaurs around. I want to know why the world is run by a king. How does he run the entire world? What do the citizens of the world think of this? Is the king voted in or is it just a family dynasty? Have there ever been revolutions? What about Bulma's family? They said she was the oldest of the Briefs sisters, but I've never seen them make any mention of any of her sisters. Did they all die or leave home? I guess that is one of the reasons I really love this arc because at least it shows that even though the RRA was defeated, not everyone just turned around and went home. Of course, this also contradicts in DB the whole Dr Flappe creating No 8 though. Nice going guys.

    Anyway, I'm going to get back to watching Not so Super Vegeta get his butt whooped on, bye.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by VladDraculi View Post
    Let me first say that the Artificial Human/Cell arc has got to me my favorite arc of this series thus far. I am loving this It is funny too because the Red Ribbon Saga was my favorite arc of DB and now the remnants of them (which is awesome) ends up being my favorite part of this series. I really loved 18 and 17 as characters as I was expecting them to just be boring robots. Of course, they aren't really just robots, are they? Which makes me wonder, why do they call them Androids in English? Androids means just a robot with human-looking skin on them. They are more like cyborgs because cyborgs are part human, part machine.
    Nobody was paying attention at FUNimation. The characters use the word 'jinzou-ningen' to describe them. 'Jinzou' means 'man-made' and 'ningen' refers to human, making them 'man-made humans' or 'artificial humans'. Number 17 and Number 18 are specifically referred to by Trunks on a few occasions as 'cyborgs' (the English word). Number 16 and Number 19 are the only true 'androids' because they are not made from human-bases.

    Trunks is becoming a fantastic character as well as he seems to be so full of depth due to his future being completely different. I will admit, I was a little taken aback at first that the Artificial Humans were an old dude and Kim Jong Un that Trunks feared, but I loved how they state messing with time can alter history ala the butterfly effect. A Sound of Thunder, much?
    Fun fact: when Toriyama first wrote the comic Trunks tells Gokuu to look out for Number 19 and Number 20.

    No. 16 seems pretty cool and I love that he is voiced by Gundam Wing's Heero Yuy. On the other hand, I can't say I am a fan of Cell's voice. At least for his first two forms, but it fits better with his Perfect form. Nevertheless, I like Cell, but the stuff with him in his second form was a complete bore to sit through. It also doesn't help that his form was ugly as hell. My other issue with Cell is that he just seems to be Freeza 2.0. "Oh, you can't beat my next form." I liked it better when these dudes did not have multiple forms and relied on their skills to win ala Goku vs Piccolo. i also don't understand why his first form seemed to be his most threatening one, yet, they changed him.

    One other thing I will say I am a little disappointed with is it seems like the series is now just a bunch of training montages needed to beat the next villain. There is no longer an sense of adventure in the series. Is Toriyama's world just that boring? I want to know why there are dinosaurs around. I want to know why the world is run by a king. How does he run the entire world? What do the citizens of the world think of this? Is the king voted in or is it just a family dynasty? Have there ever been revolutions? What about Bulma's family? They said she was the oldest of the Briefs sisters, but I've never seen them make any mention of any of her sisters. Did they all die or leave home? I guess that is one of the reasons I really love this arc because at least it shows that even though the RRA was defeated, not everyone just turned around and went home. Of course, this also contradicts in DB the whole Dr Flappe creating No 8 though. Nice going guys.

    Anyway, I'm going to get back to watching Not so Super Vegeta get his butt whooped on, bye.
    Yeah, there will no longer be any adventure in the series. Toriyama makes the plot up week-by-week and changes it mid-way due to complaints from his former editor or his current editor.

    At that time it began to be more fun to think up the story than to draw the pictures. But with the story, I basically only thought of each chapter. That’s why I end up getting caught in these quagmires. (laughs) Around the time of Trunks’ time travel, it was dreadful. I kept drawing, and it just got more and more incoherent.

  3. #103
    Mr. Anime is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by VladDraculi View Post
    Of course, this also contradicts in DB the whole Dr Flappe creating No 8 though. Nice going guys.
    That's because it was filler that Toei Animation made up at the time. And to perfectly fair to them, it's not like they knew that Toriyama would introduce the real creator of the Red Ribbon Army's technology some 5 years later, as Toriyama himself as has been pointed out, never really planned his story ahead of one or two chapters. Although you are getting to point in the series where he may have once done so involving a certain character...

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Anime View Post
    Although you are getting to point in the series where he may have once done so involving a certain character...
    I know what you're getting at but the development feels so tacked on I can't help but think it was Toriyama pulling something out of his ass because he was running out of ideas and his then-editor, Takeda Fuyuto, who had recently taken over the series, basically let him do as he pleased without co-helming the story like the previous two editors did.

  5. #105
    VladDraculi is offline Member
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    Interesting but kind of a shame at the same time. It sounds like Toriyama just lost interest in the series after a while but kept it going because it was making him rich. Bummer.

    Anyway, more episodes have passed and there is a lot more to address.

    First off, I love how there has been a vast majority of new music used now, but as much as I love it, they really know how to make you sick of it at the same time. I swear that they are using that Cell battle music at least 6 times an episode, and as great as it is, it is tiring to hear after four episodes. It also makes me mad that they have never reused the Trunks vs Freeza theme from way back when as I would love to hear it at least a few more times. Another thing I want to say is this series is sorely lacking in the lyrical insert music. Dragon Ball had a ton of them, which were awesome, especially the Red Ribbon Army and General Blue songs. The song that came about when Gohan got pissed at Cell was the first one since I think before the Freeza saga. That is very disappointing considering they add some uniqueness to the battles, especially the big epic ones.

    Except for the horrid boring episode with Mr Satan and his two goons battling Cell, I have been highly enjoying the Cell Games. I do think it has dragged on a little bit, especially the Goku/Cell battle, but other than that, no issues. The Cell Jrs stuff was wickedly badass. On the other hand, it is disheartening to know that everyone but Goku and Gohan are pretty much obsolete. Piccolo started off as an incredible character and now his only stake in the series is that Gohan sees him more of a father figure than Goku. Tenshinhan and Kuririn are utterly useless and don't even need to show their faces around there anymore. I won't even bother talking about Yamucha, but he needs to just be forgotten like Lunch.

    Another issue I do have is that it seems like the power levels are just getting out of control. Cell's first form was way more powerful than Freeza's final form, even though Freeza was supposed to be the be all end all villain. Then comes the Super Saiyans to out do Freeza and now they have to be more powerful than Cell. This is getting ridiculous. At least they have established that making your muscles too big does limit what you can do, so there was that, no matter how minuscule it may be.

    Overall, right now, there are a ton of things I love about the series, Toriyama knows how to write amazing interesting characters and be creative with them. On the other hand, it seems like he got into a comfy spot and decided to play everything safe right after. I will admit though, I did shed a tear when Goku died even though he is the dumbest and worst father ever.

    Oh yeah, I loved that I got to see Tao Pai Pai again. That was awesome. I did feel they kind of insulted him though, but making him run from the battles, but it does show that he knows when he is out of his element, so I did find that hilarious and nice. He didn't just try to get his revenge, he was just like, "I'm out." Dende coming back was nice and it is cool that there are now two wishes they can use.

    By the way, a friend of mine said that I really should have just watched Kai because it gets rid of the convoluted plot points and makes the show a lot more cohesive. I think I might watch it after I watch GT as I am curious.

  6. #106
    VladDraculi is offline Member
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    "What is there a Super Saiyan bargain sale going on?" HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHahahahahahahahahaha...

    Oh my god that was hilarious. That was awesome. Of course, so it Goten complaining about Gohan flying even though he is a SS and then the whole Chichi conversation with Videl about the tournament.

    Oh wait, I am jumping ahead aren't I? The last thing I talked about was Goku dying from Cell. Well let me first say that that final showdown with Cell was utterly epic. The arc after with the tournament in the afterlife not so much. It wasn't terrible, but I found nothing overly exciting about it either. I did not know there were other Kaios though.

    However, I have been having an absolute blast with everything that has come after so far. The Great Saiyaman stuff was hilarious. "Mom you have to make me one... Nevermind, I don't want one anymore." I love how everyone is ribbing on his outfit and he does not even think a second thought about it. The tournament thus far has been just as enjoyable. In fact, it brings me back to the tournament from the end of DB. I love that the announcer recognized Goku and gang and is excited to finally get a good tournament again. The battle between Goten and Trunks was awesome but I'm not sure what I think about Piccolo just giving up without a fight. It saddens me to see Piccolo become the new Yamucha. The new opening and ending songs are damn awesome as well.

    BTW, I have a question I forgot to address during the Cell saga. The narrator says something like, "Unknown to the world, Piccolo Daimao was defeated by a young boy, and that boy is Goku," or something to that extent. How is it unknown if he was plastered all over the TV and they even went to Roshi's house to interview him when Oolong transformed into Goku. Did they mess up the translation of that line and meant "Forgotten to the world?"

  7. #107
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    Vegard Aune is offline Member
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    I don't think him being plainly shown and identified on TV was in the manga. But I also think it may have been a mistranslation... because let's be fair, how would the whole world just have conveniently missed Goku's victory over Piccolo in the tournament?

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