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  1. #21
    HG Revolution's Avatar
    HG Revolution is offline Truth (with crazy opinions!)
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    It is important to keep in mind that even if we can't expect any changes in the type of shows, we can at least wish for an improvement in the quality of those shows. There's nothing wrong with drawing cute girls. It's when those girls don't resemble real people in the slightest that there's the problem Miyazaki is talking about here.
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  2. #22
    Dr. Daedalus's Avatar
    Dr. Daedalus is offline I'm WikiBear!
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    Epic doesn't have a dance party ending, either.
    Quote Originally Posted by HG Revolution View Post
    It is important to keep in mind that even if we can't expect any changes in the type of shows, we can at least wish for an improvement in the quality of those shows. There's nothing wrong with drawing cute girls. It's when those girls don't resemble real people in the slightest that there's the problem Miyazaki is talking about here.
    Like the anime girls who don't have a nose? That design choice really bugs me. I'm not saying have a giant schnoz but come on. At least have something.

  3. #23
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    Kitschensyngk is offline wants to be on your team
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    Okay, I admit I'm a tad out of the loop with recent animated releases. It's just that most of the ones I've seen end in a full cast anthromorphic dance party (plus I've also seen one with dancing garden gnomes) plus you see them dancing in every commercial. I just find it a tad overused.

    Quote Originally Posted by HG Revolution View Post
    It is important to keep in mind that even if we can't expect any changes in the type of shows, we can at least wish for an improvement in the quality of those shows. There's nothing wrong with drawing cute girls. It's when those girls don't resemble real people in the slightest that there's the problem Miyazaki is talking about here.
    A very good point.

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  4. #24
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    From what is quoted in the Anime News Network article:

    Miyazaki explained that animating people can only be done by those who spend time observing others, something he feels the industry lacks because it's "full of otaku."
    That sounds less to me like criticism of the designs and move like the actual animation--the movement of the characters. This is where Miyazaki starts going off the deep-end because animators' character acting skills have improved tremendously in the past decade. Animators like Kouno Megumi and the others who worked on The Idol M@aster have produced movements with extraordinary timing.


    Key Animation by Iizuka Haruko for The Idol M@aster Opening #1

    That being said, the aforementioned example is still a storyline about 'cute girls being cute', so take that how you will.
    Last edited by Jacob T. Paschal; 02-02-2014 at 12:24 PM. Reason: Fixed wording.
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  5. #25
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    Gorbash is offline Munchings & Crunchings
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    I don't know, I feel like standards are lower if that's considered the best these days. I feel like the OVA's and shows of the 80s and 90s had greater timing than that, if that's considered some of the best.
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  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorbash View Post
    I don't know, I feel like standards are lower if that's considered the best these days. I feel like the OVA's and shows of the 80s and 90s had greater timing than that, if that's considered some of the best.
    I don't think the example is 'considered' the best, but I think the wrist movement is really sharp. The use of the foreground as the characters move into the background helps create a sense of space without actually showing below the waist. Personally, I think majority of skilled animators are all still killed best at creating exciting action, rather then exciting character acting, but I think there has definitely been a strong upturn in the skills of animators recently.

    Miyazaki also mentions that Ghibli does a lot of outsourcing, but they won't be able to do that forever. I think that's perhaps looking far too ahead in time to a unspecific period in the future. The skilled talents of this generation (Tanaka, Kameda, Matsumoto, Yamashita, et cetera) have found great success as freelancers. Heck, Kaguya-hime had Matsumoto Norio provide eighty uncredited cuts of key animation. Animators like Matsumoto are inspiring the new kids, like Yamashita Shingo and Ryou-chimo to create exciting new images and techniques. Finding talent is not the issue, finding ways to entice the talent to work for them is the problem.
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  7. #27
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    This is about as newsworthy as Miyazaki saying he's retiring - it seems like we hear it every other week and yet nothing changes. Yeah, anime companies make what sells, and in other news teen novels and superheroes are the only movies getting big-budget funding out of Hollywood anymore.

    My problem with the anime industry today is probably similar to what he said, but directed outward. I think the whole anime community is far too insular. No, I'm not talking about Otaku who never leave the house, I'm talking about people who feel so superior that they have to make fun of Otaku who never leave the house, and if they don't like some anime they immediately categorize it as being for some subgroup of Otaku. The kind of people who talk in anime cliches, constantly using words like "waifu" and "moe" sarcastically, and who only seem to be able to compare anime to other anime. I've met a LOT more of those type of people than anyone who could actually be called Otaku.

    How much of a problem are Otaku, really? If they're as you describe (live with parents, unemployed/unemployable, glued to their computer), how much disposable income do you think they're really throwing around? Wouldn't they be more likely to pirate anime anyway? Yes, I'm sure there's a very small niche that have money and buy every figurine they can get their hands on, but enough to support an entire industry?

    While they might drive some minor segment of the industry, I think a bigger effect is had by those snarky Comic-Book-Guy type of anime nerds who effectively keep all outsiders out of the anime world. They're the ones who make it impossible for anime to gain respect in the real world. Every anime has to fit into some category and everything that looks like a trope HAS to be a trope, and it can only be compared to other such anime. So as a result, we get a lot of stuff that does exactly that. And we end up with less outside accessibility and less creative experimentation.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by WickedChild View Post
    How much of a problem are Otaku, really? If they're as you describe (live with parents, unemployed/unemployable, glued to their computer), how much disposable income do you think they're really throwing around?
    "A study suggests that sales of the objects that inspire moe - such as comic books, video games, and anime DVDs - have become so great that their positive impact on the Japanese economy can no longer be ignored. Behind the upsurge is the otaku penchant for amassing vast collections of the products they like and their willingness to spend huge sums in doing so. The Nomura Research Institute in August 2004 put the number of otaku in Japan at 2.85 million, accounting for a market estimated at 290 billion ($2.5 billion at 110 to the dollar). In April 2005, the Hamagin Research Institute reckoned the market for moe-related content was worth 88.8 billion ($807 million) in 2003."

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  9. #29
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    You know, we Americans think of otaku as the sweaty basement dweller type, but that's not always the case in Japan. "Otaku" and "salaryman" are not mutually exclusive. Remember the story about the guy whose wife threw out his bottle collection? She was a housewife, so she clearly wasn't paying for them.

    So what if people spend the money they earn on things that they like? It makes them happy. When people criticize otaku like this, I just turn around and criticize tailgaters.

    That article is almost ten years old, and it's missing one big part about Japanese spending habits- they like to sell stuff back when they're done with it. True collectors hold on to things, but the majority of people who buy "Moe Moe Cute Girl" DVDs or whatever eventually sell them back to Book Off or Wonder Goo.
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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by WickedChild View Post
    but enough to support an entire industry?
    Why can a "small" population of people support an entire industry? Because you only need to sell a few thousand BD's for a good indicator than an anime will be successful. Just check the list: ‚ƒ‹ƒDVDƒBD売‚ŠŠ’まと‚wiki or check animesuke's list for English: Anime DVD/BD Sales in Japan: Cumulative Reports [DO NOT POST!!] - AnimeSuki Forum

    Before you check the lists, read this: The Anime Economy - Part 2: Shiny Discs - Anime News Network and the rest of the series too.

    Otaku buy things. They spend the money on anime. "Normal" people don't do it. How do I know that? Look at the anime that are made every season and see what types of shows are the ones getting second seasons and whatever. Otaku get the DVDs, the merch, and everything that goes along with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by defunctzombie View Post
    That article is almost ten years old,
    2007: Report: 2007 Japanese Otaku Market is 187 Billion Yen - News - Anime News Network

    "Media Create, an entertainment market research firm best known for providing weekly ranking charts for Japanese games, has issued its 2008 Otaku Industry White Paper. According to Media Create, the otaku market in Japan in 2007 stands at 186.88 billion yen (US$1.651 billion), a 2.5% increase from the previous year.
    The report broke down the market into five categories:

    Category Total in Yen Total in US$ Market Percentage
    DVD/CD (Anime) 34.02 billion 301 million 18.2%
    Published Materials 40.67 billion 359 million 21.8%
    Games 56.08 billion 495 million 30.0%
    Figures and Various Goods 28.18 billion 249 million 15.1%
    Dōjinshi 27.73 billion 245 million 14.9%
    "

    2010: Yano Research Reports on Japan's 2009-10 Otaku Market - News - Anime News Network

    "The Yano Research Institute posted its 2010 report on the Japanese "otaku marketplace" on October 8.
    The institute reported that seven categories in the marketplace expanded in 2009, with dating simulation games growing the most at 83.0% to 8.6 billion yen (about US$106 million). Other categories with significant estimated growth include electronic comics (29.8% to 42.2 billion yen/US$520 million) and online games (17.2% to 213.1 billion yen/US$2.62 billion). The remaining expanding categories were cosplay outfits (5.5%), dōjinshi (4.7%), figures (2.9%), and idols (1.9%)"

    2011: RESEARCH SUMMARY -Latest Outcome of Our Research- - YANO Research -

    2012: RESEARCH SUMMARY -Latest Outcome of Our Research- - YANO Research -

    I mean, this should be obvious if you looked at what anime were selling season to season.

    and it's missing one big part about Japanese spending habits- they like to sell stuff back when they're done with it
    Yano researched the economic impact made buy otaku from the first sale. Why would they talk about resale when they're looking at otaku's initial impact. Might as well have economic reports about the games that get re-sold after the company has already made the money after the initial sale.

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