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  1. #21
    Sketch's Avatar
    Sketch is offline not like those other old guys
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    Quote Originally Posted by Classic Speedy View Post
    Is this really any different than a reviewer not listening to the Japanese language track? I think it's a shame that Jacob doesn't want to give the dub a chance, but it's his preference.

    That said, I don't think people would be getting so upset if Jacob didn't list the dub as an "extra". That's not an extra, that's the default audio track and is part of the main presentation. And just for the sake of argument, even if you DO believe it's an extra, it deserves at least a bit more detail than just listing it. If I wanted a mere list of special features, I could look it up on Right Stuf.
    True, not every reviewer listens to both audio tracks or even talks about either though I do think it is understandable if reviewer only focuses on the default audio track as that's a primary selling point. In the modern age when nearly every Japanese cartoon that gets released on DVD can be streamed at little to no cost what I'm interested in knowing is if the dub was handled with care and if there any audio or video issues with the disks. It's a slightly different bag when someone is reviewing a stream, broadcast or screener. I wont beat around the bush, I'm downright offended every time Jacob says a dub is not "the show". That's a preposterous to me as saying only the Gold cast of a musical or play is the show and the Silver cast can never be the show. While I understand he has no interest in watching One Piece accompanied with FUNimation's cast and I probably don't even want to read his opinion on it if he's watching it with that mindset, disregarding the most notable feature on the set besides the Japanese audio is always going to make his reviews feel incomplete. What audience is this review catering to? One Piece fans probably already knew if they wanted that box set or not.

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  2. #22
    Raidon Makoto's Avatar
    Raidon Makoto is offline Long Live The Heroes
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sketch View Post
    I wont beat around the bush, I'm downright offended every time Jacob says a dub is not "the show". That's a preposterous to me as saying only the Gold cast of a musical or play is the show and the Silver cast can never be the show.
    I agree with Sketch's statement on this matter 110%.

    11.5 Space Dandy / 12.0 Bleach / 12.5 Shippuden / 1.0 One Piece / 1.5 Soul Eater / 2.0 Sword Art Online / 2.5 Naruto / 3.0 GITS / 3.5 Brotherhood / 4.0 Samurai Jack / 4.5 IGPX / 5.0 Clone Wars / 5.5 Inuyasha
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raidon Makoto View Post
    I agree with Sketch's statement on this matter 110%.
    The comparison doesn't work. The Gold Cast's performance on Tuesday is not their performance from Monday. This isn't about cast, this is about performances. An actor is separate from the performance he has created and the performances he will create tomorrow, twenty years from now, and forever more. To use an example from this One Piece set: Ikura Kazue is the voice of Chopper for episodes #254-263, not Ootani Ikue. Batman: The Brave and the Bold went through two Martha Wayne actresses, Pat Musick in the episode Dawn of the Deadman and Julie Newmar in the second season episode Chill of the Night!. That is simply how those episodes wound up being.

    History doesn't change and film is an excellent example of this. Film sits there, for eternity, and does not change. Millions of play performances across the world and throughout history have not been recorded and are thus to the annals of time. Nonetheless they were their own unique performances that all existed at their own time, no matter the similarities they might share with other individual performances throughout history.
    TCG | Let's Sakuga: Discussing animation and the people who make it!

  4. #24
    Sketch's Avatar
    Sketch is offline not like those other old guys
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    I'm not saying they are the same performance. I'm saying that a work of fiction on film is still the same fiction regardless of which language it is dubbed to baring the story has not been modified. FUNi One Piece is the show, 4Kids One Piece is not.

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  5. #25
    Ed Liu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sketch View Post
    I'm not saying they are the same performance. I'm saying that a work of fiction on film is still the same fiction regardless of which language it is dubbed to baring the story has not been modified. FUNi One Piece is the show, 4Kids One Piece is not.
    Sorry, I can't get on board with that thought, if only because language translation is not perfect, so translation of any language is effectively modifying the story. There are terms in Japanese that don't translate well and end up getting replaced, or passages that are abridged or expanded all the time in dubs because they have to match lip flaps. There are terms and usages in Japanese that are difficult or impossible to bring off effectively in English -- I'm told Rashomon is a fundamentally different experience in the original Japanese and not even the subtitles are going to bring that across. There's also all the anime where the dub increases the profanity. For a lot of anime, it might not make an enormous difference which soundtrack you listen to, but just because you might not pick up on the differences doesn't mean they aren't there.

    THAT said, I think there is a certain artistry to the anime dub and there are anime which I think are better in something other than the native language. The English language casts of Cowboy Bebop and Black Lagoon are the easiest and most-cited examples (and the latter anime may be the first I've ever seen where I felt that neither soundtrack managed to bring across everything it needed to). I also like the French dub of Porco Rosso better than any of the other alternate tracks largely because of Jean Reno's performance as the title character (and, reportedly, Hayao Miyazaki himself thinks so too).
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  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Liu View Post
    THAT said, I think there is a certain artistry to the anime dub and there are anime which I think are better in something other than the native language. The English language casts of Cowboy Bebop and Black Lagoon are the easiest and most-cited examples (and the latter anime may be the first I've ever seen where I felt that neither soundtrack managed to bring across everything it needed to). I also like the French dub of Porco Rosso better than any of the other alternate tracks largely because of Jean Reno's performance as the title character (and, reportedly, Hayao Miyazaki himself thinks so too).
    Fair warning: I kind of used this post to jump off into other talking point, so feel free to ignore most of what I'm saying. Well, don't ignore it, but don't think I'm riding your rear here, bronco!

    Not to bite the hand that feeds, but this is exactly the sort of indulgence in whim-based decision making that I have avoided with my review. If the performances stink...they stink. That's all there is to it. Replacing the original performances with different performances [that an individual might just so happen to subjectively like] doesn't tell you anything about the film or episode in question. "I don't like Rino Romano as Batman, replace him with Kevin Conroy! It's not like anything has changed!!" or another example that actually did happen: "I don't like this old mono audio track, call in the actors who are still alive twenty years after we made these films and have them redo the lines! What, some of them are dead or unavailable? Fine, we'll recast! While we're at it, let's change the music placement and sound effects!" for the Gundam film trilogy.


    If I may offer a fair warning at this point: I'm not going to talk about this anymore. This thread has been nigh nothing but the pot calling the kettle black and I see no more reason to politely explain why a radish is a radish for the seventy-eighth time. I'm spending too much time trying to write these posts, thinking up a dozen different sentences at once trying to present myself in the most diplomatic manner possible. This post has already seen huge changes, taking up far more of my night than I ever meant to allow it to. I do not like being upset, therefore I am deciding to no longer do the things that upset me, simply put. That sounds corny, but if it means doing something fun with my time it's worth every penny.
    TCG | Let's Sakuga: Discussing animation and the people who make it!

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