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  1. #41
    Gatomon41's Avatar
    Gatomon41 is offline Happy Easter!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Classic Speedy View Post
    Went through a period where I disliked fanservice, then I kinda liked it and was pretty forgiving if a title had it, now I'm basically back to the former opinion. Though to be more specific, it's not so much the fanservice itself that I object to (seriously, for a heterosexual male to say he dislikes the female form would be a huge-ass lie), but the fact that it is often used as a crutch to hide weak writing and characterization. And both of those aspects are important to me. In a fanservice-heavy show, the message being indirectly sent is, "Hey, we don't have an engaging story or characters, but who cares, here's some T&A!"

    A few weeks ago I just got done with Avatar: The Last Airbender, and among the many praises I have for the show, one of the big ones is that they had strong female characters who weren't treated as objects by having sexist, ecchi things happen to them every other minute.
    Fanservice is pretty tricky, because in the hands of a master, it could be tasteful and relevant to the plot. But most of the time, it's just so badly done.

    Just picked up a couple of episodes of A:TLA this week, to see if its for me or not.
    He is Risen.

    "Truth suffers, but never dies." -St. Teresa of Avila

  2. #42
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    GWOtaku is offline Moderator
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    Here's a couple things that have changed for me:


    Collecting Collectible Manga

    I went through the entire manga boom and beyond and largely avoided collecting manga. Animation was more interesting and I did not and still do not have the space to have a lot of different series on the shelf, much less the long and popular ones. Things have changed recently though, pretty much because I stumbled across Osamu Tezuka manga one day and then just kept going and going. It helps that most of what's on my shelf from him is from Vertical Publishing, which pretty much publishes the most well-made books on the market. It helps even more that I started off with Black Jack, which is super awesome with its very episodic storytelling that covers all kinds of ground and has the titular character pulling off some crazy stuff more than a few times. Buddha was a fictionalized biography turned into an illustrated epic, and I can't imagine there's a more entertaining way to learn about Buddhism. Message to Adolf is one third thriller and two thirds a chilling look at the sheer evil of Nazi Fascism and how propaganda and poisonous ideology can corrupt people.

    That was the foundation. I've been slowly picking out nice editions of some other things too, like the VizBig edition of Rurouni Kenshin (for my money the best shonen series around outside of the neverending, sprawling adventure that is One Piece) and Kaoru Mori's A Bride's Story, which Yen Press puts out in a lovely bigger-than-average hardback that's ideal for showcasing her super detailed artistry. Most recently, of course, there's Gundam The Origin from Vertical, which is both very well done and released as a hardback in the absolute finest quality. With comics, I'm generally fine to go digital because of space and cost. But I love books, and I've gotten a lot of pleasure out of being able to get material I really like on the shelf in a good format. For my money it's a bit better than having a collectible release for an animated series, because what happens with that? You take it off the shelf and take out the disc and put it back. But a book, a book you feel in your hands and display while you use it, it's something you take with you.

    Watching Less, Enjoying More

    A lot of people "burn out" on anime after awhile. It's never really happened to me, and I think I know why. Over time, I learned to discriminate.

    Here's what I mean by that. There are two major fatal flaws in archtypical "hardcore" anime fans. The first is overconsumption. The easiest way to "burn out" on anime by far is to binge on new material, whatever the reason for doing it may be. This wouldn't be satisfying for other forms of visual media, and it isn't for anime either. In any given anime season, in any given year, most anime that hits Japanese television just isn't that good. If you have ten TV series in a year that you really like, that's an excellent year. The rest are pitiful panderfests and / or substandard or else something that might be "good" but won't prove memorable in the best case scenario. You have your "old timers" looking back wistfully on the 80s and 90s over this, but it was true back then too. The difference now is, it's far easier (and cheaper) to follow the newest material, so they just marinate in mediocrity. You have people that try to watch something like 80% of what's running in Japan. It's crazy, it's a blind search for the next awesome thing that'll knock their socks off that just ultimately ends in frustration instead. It's a surefire way to find the best stuff, but is that worth spending hours just enduring content?

    Part of what can fuel this is the second flaw, which is when anime fans adopt this excessively permissive attitude. Don't get me wrong, sure, the willingness and courage to try new things should be there, and lord knows appreciation of context can be lacking in talk about anime at times. Cynical anime fans are pretty much the worst. But what I'm talking about is the willingness to excuse almost any stupid or super convoluted plot, icky premise and tired perverted cliche in pursuit of some lame "look, it's not THAT bad" rationalization, which is the most uninspiring defense imaginable. I can't relate to this at all. I can understand sticking through to the end out of curiosity about where a story goes, or so you can analyze and / or compare what you've seen to something else. But there's a point where you just have to respect your own time, and that means not offering blind trust to some anime running at 2 AM that's based on a light novel and carrying a sentence-length title that no one would believe was the name of a cartoon if you tried to tell them it really existed on the street.

    What I try to do is strike balance. In early days I pick out just a few series that interest me most I pay attention to buzz and try what I can as time allows, and if there's enough praise or interesting praise for something I overlooked then I look at that. The rest of my time goes to older anime, anime movies, animation that isn't anime, & comics / manga at times. It works out pretty well, although if anything I have the reverse problem of not quite getting to as much as I want as quickly as I want to. But on the whole I'm never dissatisfied with the time I spend on anime.

    Incidentally, I think there is one surefire way to get back into anime or ward off burnout...movies and OVAs. Even the lesser ones can often be interesting in their way, and if nothing else they'll be more interesting to look at than TV anime. There's enough out there to last quite a long time, they are cheaper, they require less time investment, and as a general matter more effort goes into these than with TV animation that's a lot more prevalent and also been generally been more limited ever since the first Astro Boy animation came along in the 60s.
    Last edited by GWOtaku; 10-31-2013 at 10:04 PM. Reason: added more & rearranged thoughts a little
    I would suggest that it's not the medium, but the quality of perception and expression, that determines the significance of art. But what would a cartoonist know? -Bill Watterson
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  3. #43
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    I tend to not apply any thought to the number of shows I consume. If I'm not liking a series or interested early on I simply quit and focus on the plethora of things I do like. I think that's the secret to avoid burn out, go into a show with a defined goal and if it doesn't pan out early, jump ship and think nothing more of it. Etching your score onto your proverbial headboard isn't going to do anyone any good.
    TCG | Let's Sakuga: Discussing animation and the people who make it!

  4. #44
    Classic Speedy's Avatar
    Classic Speedy is offline It's not Regis!
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    Quote Originally Posted by GWOtaku View Post
    But what I'm talking about is the willingness to excuse almost any stupid or super convoluted plot, icky premise and tired perverted cliche in pursuit of some lame "look, it's not THAT bad" rationalization, which is the most uninspiring defense imaginable.
    I think that's more a natural reaction to hype and hyperbole than anything else. Some viewers have a tendency to over-inflate how bad a show is, so that others go in expecting the worst thing ever. And they're pleasantly surprised when it isn't.

    There's a lesson in this: Not everything can be so bad it breaks the ratings scale. Most of what's out there is just overwhelmingly mediocre. Which is why I've become burnt out on anime so many times over the years; I've seen a lot of average shows.

  5. #45
    HellCat's Avatar
    HellCat is offline Travelling hero
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    Quote Originally Posted by HellCat View Post
    I watch less, due to a mix of a lack of time, money and resources. It used to be that I didn't have the spare cash to risk on shows I hadn't tried before. Streams would ideally kill that issue but then they carry the problem of near everything I'm interested in being blocked here. Perfect example, I wanted to watch Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood, but had to wait so long for a legal stream that my interest just died.
    I know people who are watching several shows by various means (some less than legal) and it amazes me. Also hasn't helped that it seems each year we're just seeing the same stuff repeated, only getting more and more creepy. Plot and characters are the deciding factors for me, so it does alot to drive me away when each season we just seem to have more creepy mild voyeur shows or 'House Full of Tsunderes'.
    Get out of there, 2010 HC! 2013 HC is still trapped!!

    *ahem*

    What I said then still holds basically true though it was posted just before I started getting screeners to review. I could be far better with those but it does mean I get to see a variety of stuff I might not have sampled otherwise like Bodacious Space Pirates (that theme song owns my soul). I'm definitely venturing out a bit more but I feel watching too many shows at once is wasting time I don't have. I'm still doing a very drawn out Gundam rewatch, recently finished Attack on Titan, need to get back on track with Valvrave and add stuff like Kill la Kill.

    Merchandise is a big part of the experience for me. I own several Gunpla, some action figures and even have some Nendroids pre-ordered now. I've cut back (I bought some poor choice novelty items I really regret, including an electronic beam saber that just sits on display) but I still think Japan does very cool collectables.
    If only I could find a figurarts and Megahouse Eas...

  6. #46
    Tohya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GWOtaku View Post
    A lot of people "burn out" on anime after awhile. It's never really happened to me, and I think I know why. Over time, I learned to discriminate.Here's what I mean by that. There are two major fatal flaws in archtypical "hardcore" anime fans. The first is overconsumption.
    Burn out is psychological so trying to define it is pretty moot. Honestly I dont think anyone actually experiences burn out, but simply change as fans the older they get. Their tastes become more refined, time constraints limit their ability to sit and watch anything. Real life makes it hard to stay connected to a foreign product especially if you have other interests that take precedent. I think many of us associate it with burn out because the passion that was once their has largely subsided or believe that because interest has waned over that particular seasons crop of anime they've "burnt out". What you described I think is the natural evolution of a lot of us veteran fans. We start watching smarter. We realize that the number of shows we watch doesnt define our fandom. I think thats how i've changed as an anime fan. I dont watch anime anymore but I still love watching anime.
    "If that's what it means to be wise, I guess that means I'll be fool all my life" - Naruto, after Jiraiya has told him to wise up and give up on his friend.

  7. #47
    Dub C's Avatar
    Dub C is offline Just a animation lovin' dude
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    I don't totally agree, even though I get what you saying. When you overconsume on say a particular genre, you tend to notice the cliche's and tropes more easily and unless you don't mind or simply tolerate them, you tend to get tired of them and tend to avoid any shows within the genre until they deliver something fresh or unique.
    What has my attention in Animation RIGHT NOW:
    Hunter X Hunter (2011), One Piece, The Legend of Korra, TMNT (2012), Teen Titans Go!, Magi 2, Kill la Kill, A Certain Scientific Railgun

  8. #48
    Tohya's Avatar
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    Familiarization with cliche and tropes doesnt happen because of overcomsuption though but rather maturation. Overcosuming is a byproduct of obsession. If your devouring a particular genre of anime its because your obsessed, and if thats the case you probably dont care about the flaws of your preferred genre. So the question is how long does it last? Thats why I have reservations in weather overconsuming actually plays a part in anime fatigue, is it really burn out or simply you maturing (its ironic you said you didnt totally agree because your words basically mirrored my own)
    Last edited by Tohya; 11-07-2013 at 07:52 PM.
    "If that's what it means to be wise, I guess that means I'll be fool all my life" - Naruto, after Jiraiya has told him to wise up and give up on his friend.

  9. #49
    Dub C's Avatar
    Dub C is offline Just a animation lovin' dude
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    That's really the part where don't completely agree, even though our points are similar, that over-consumption can't be a reason for people turning away from the medium for a while as opposed to it just being an issue of lack of time and being a picky watcher.

    Using myself as an example when it comes to video games, a couple of my favorite games are jRPGs that take roughly 60-100 hours to finish. I enjoy playing the games, but once I had my fill, I really don't want to touch any of those games for a while. I just get a little tired of it mentally, like my interest is on empty after play for so long. But after some significant time away (like at least a year or so), I feel refreshed enough and the game feels as enjoyable as the first time again. I can't say that's how others feel when it comes to games, anime, movies, etc, but that's why I believe burn-out can be a reason at least.
    What has my attention in Animation RIGHT NOW:
    Hunter X Hunter (2011), One Piece, The Legend of Korra, TMNT (2012), Teen Titans Go!, Magi 2, Kill la Kill, A Certain Scientific Railgun

  10. #50
    Ryusuke's Avatar
    Ryusuke is offline SomethingWithTheR
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    I've definitely became more picky, and I'm just not as crazy about anime anymore. I've also become less of an avid watcher of anime or even an avid reader as I used to be.
    "Don't take life too seriously; you'll never make it out alive!"
    - Bugs Bunny, "Rabbit Feat" (1960)

  11. #51
    Tohya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dub C View Post
    That's really the part where don't completely agree, even though our points are similar, that over-consumption can't be a reason for people turning away from the medium for a while as opposed to it just being an issue of lack of time and being a picky watcher.

    Using myself as an example when it comes to video games, a couple of my favorite games are jRPGs that take roughly 60-100 hours to finish. I enjoy playing the games, but once I had my fill, I really don't want to touch any of those games for a while. I just get a little tired of it mentally, like my interest is on empty after play for so long. But after some significant time away (like at least a year or so), I feel refreshed enough and the game feels as enjoyable as the first time again. I can't say that's how others feel when it comes to games, anime, movies, etc, but that's why I believe burn-out can be a reason at least.
    There's a particular glaring hole in your otherwise spot on example my friend, and its that you're only talking about one specific genre with your love of RPGs. Anime is a vastly diverse medium, so if you're looking for something novel and exciting you'll no doubt find it. Honestly, it's such an apples to oranges comparison I could go on and on stating the differences but there would be no point because I understand what you're saying. Simply consuming a form of entertainment, whether it's a particular genre or an entire medium can lead to "burn out". Over-consuming is the wrong word to use though because there's no defining it. Over-consuming for you is 100 hours on a video game, that's just a Tuesday night for some of the gamers I know. So again simply consuming something doesn't necessarily lead to burn out, especially when you consider that being open minded is a way to avoid it (hint hint). Hence why I have my reservations.
    "If that's what it means to be wise, I guess that means I'll be fool all my life" - Naruto, after Jiraiya has told him to wise up and give up on his friend.

  12. #52
    Dub C's Avatar
    Dub C is offline Just a animation lovin' dude
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    Heh, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on the semantics, since it's clear we're both getting each others points at least, haha.
    What has my attention in Animation RIGHT NOW:
    Hunter X Hunter (2011), One Piece, The Legend of Korra, TMNT (2012), Teen Titans Go!, Magi 2, Kill la Kill, A Certain Scientific Railgun

  13. #53
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    How have I changed as a fan? Bought my first manga in 06, after reading a free Shojo Beat. I had been into anime since I could remember via Toonami, so it was nice to be able to read some of it.

    Now I live in Japan. Ultimate anime/manga fan accomplishment, eh? I'm much more into comic books than animation, given the availability of printed media here. Plus there's a greater sense of enjoyment when you translate a book yourself instead of reading how someone else did it. For example, there was a doujinshi series I got into, and for reading practice started translating it myself. Then I found put that the series was originally published in English. It was fun comparing the official version with what I had come up with.
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  14. #54
    Radical's Avatar
    Radical is online now The Face of Evilness & Sadism!
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    What a fantastic thread and seeing all you guys' comments on your first interests/experiences in anime/manga are AWESOME,

    How have I changed as a fan, well, my first experiences/interests in anime is when I first saw those Nick Jr. animes of the early 90s' like Maya the Bee/The Little Koala/The Noozles/The Littl' Bits which I did not know they were animes, and then when Voltron: Defender of the Universe, Robotech, Ronin Warriors, Sailor Moon, Dragonball/Z, My Neighbor Totoro, Little Nemo: Adventures in Slumberland, Speed Racer, Samurai Pizza Cats, the anime movies on the Sci-Fi channel(like Armitage III,Green Legend Ran,and Urusei Yatsura's second movie: Beautiful Dreamer), and Pokemon came to town, that's when I became a #1 anime fan which made me and my brother Jason loved anime.Both The Noozles, Voltron: Defender of the Universe, Ronin Warriors, Dragonball/Z, My Neighbor Totoro, Samurai Pizza Cats, Urusei Yatsura, and Pokemon were my first favorite epic enjoyable animes ever.I was glad to go to Hollywood Video/Blockbuster Video when I discovered/enjoyed mostly Ranma 1/2, Tenchi Muyo!, Neon Genesis Evangelion, Gunbuster, Gall Force, Slayers, Sakura Wars, Ayane's High Kick, and Project A-ko which was sweet.I enjoyed most of the channels/action blocks that had lots of great anime which was Nick Jr./Nickelodeon/Nickelodeon's SLAM/Nicktoons, Cartoon Network, Toonami, Sci-Fi(mostly anime movie land), FoxKids, FOX/ABC Family, Kids' WB, Adult Swim, The Fox Box/4Kids TV, The International Channel/AZN TV, Miguzi, Sci-Fi/Syfy's Ani-Monday/Tuesday/Thursday, CW11 4Kids, Toonzai, and The Vortexx.I mostly enjoyed a whole lot of top favorite epic animes over the years which was great.Both the FUNimation Channel/Neon Alley also became awesome anime channels too.Most of the channels/action blocks having their anime obsessions was awesome/wonderful, but I screamed in excitement when Tenchi Muyo! first came to Toonami which got me surprised/shocked, you're awesome Toonami.I mostly enjoyed sweet animes on video/DVDs/online like Sherlock Hound, Tenchi Muyo! GXP/War on Geminar, Galaxy Angel, Azumanga Daioh!, Hyper Police, Eureka 7: Astral Ocean, The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya, Pani Poni Dash!, Yawara! A Fashionable Judo Girl, Kodocha, Fairy Tail(most epic popular show ever), UFO Ultramaiden Valkyrie(had a great Urusei Yatsura vibe which Kazuto is more better/likable than Ataru), Ring ni Kakero/Put It All In the Ring(to the Shadow Clan arc), Great Teacher Onizuka, Full Metal Panic!/Fumoffu/The Second Raid, Gintama, Toriko, Negima!/!?, Higurashi no Naku Koro Ni/Kai/Kira/Rei, Lucky Star, and some of the FUNimation Channel/Neon Alley's animes.

    I'm also a collector on buying/collecting Dragonball Z/Digimon cards, buying great manga of Urusei Yatsura/Ranma 1/2/Tenchi Muyo!/Slayers/Love Hina/Ultimate Muscle: The Kinnikuman Legacy, and anime-based video games, but I mostly prefer anime over the manga though.That's how I became a big anime fan now.
    Last edited by Radical; 01-07-2014 at 07:48 PM.

  15. #55
    Tohya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dub C View Post
    Heh, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on the semantics, since it's clear we're both getting each others points at least, haha.
    Typically I'd agree to disagree when a discussion turns into just us splitting hairs but I honestly dont know what were agreeing to disagree on. My original point had nothing to do with overconsumption leading to burn out. In fact I think someone had already addressed that binging on new material (GWO's point) wasn't necessarily the way you burnout. If your point was simply that people grow weary when they overconsume a genre of animation then sure, thats a point ill concede, But do they turn completely away from the medium as a result? Some may, a lot probably dont. But even when conceding the point its still moot. I have a friend who has been devouring anime at an unexplainable rate for 15 years and has never once burnt out. I have a brother with a newborn who has been eating up anime and tv shows for the last six months as a result of the ungodly amount of hours he spends awake at night. Is my friend an exception to the rule? Do circumstances dictate whether you can burn out on something or not?
    "If that's what it means to be wise, I guess that means I'll be fool all my life" - Naruto, after Jiraiya has told him to wise up and give up on his friend.

  16. #56
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    Generally speaking, I've been distancing myself from long-running shounen shows and preferring shorter works that have more to offer even with their limited length. I used to be a huge fan of Saint Seiya and it's still one of my historical favorites, but my views on the show are less rose-colored than before. I'm not even watching Omega. Instead, I've gravitated towards exploring older stuff which I missed when it was new, like Perfect Blue or the original El Hazard OVA.

  17. #57
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    One other aspect that has changed for me is manga. I used to not be that interested in buying manga, but once the GX manga came out and they started to re-release Pokemon Adventures, I would buy manga bit more often. After watching a few more anime based on manga, I decided to read up on some of their original manga series to get different storylines with different versions of the characters. In most cases though, I tend to prefer the anime adaptations over the manga version, such as with Pretear, DN Angel and Trigun Maximum, but I have enjoyed reading the Yu-Gi-Oh! volumes I have. Even when I don't care as much for the manga as I did for the anime, I'm usually happy to experience different stories with the same cast of characters, especially after I just finished watching the anime version.

    Nowadays, I primarily buy Pokemon Adventures, Yu-Gi-Oh! 5Ds and Sailor Moon manga. I don't want to venture too much into getting too many volumes or series that are huge, especially when I still need to sell a few of my DN Angel manga volumes, but I try to get something that either is significantly different from the anime version like with Sailor Moon, or one that doesn't have an anime adaptation like Adventures, 5D's and Fushigi Yugi Genbu Kaiden, the latter of which I still need to get more volumes for one of these days.

  18. #58
    Wan
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keiichi View Post
    This is a question for people who have been fans of the genre for atleast five years or more. How have you personally changed as a fan? Do you watch more or less than you used to? Do you find yourself favoring Anime over Manga and so on.
    I've been watching anime since the 1990's. Sometimes I'm obsessed with it. Sometimes I ignore it and don't watch any anime at all. And sometimes it is a combination of both. It ultimately depends on what's being exported to America.

  19. #59
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    I don't think I'd even call myself a fan anymore. I like some of the old stuff from the 80s and 90s like Ranma, still, and I like some cool stuff that's outside the norm, but the bulk of what's been coming out for the last decade or so is a big turnoff for me. No thank you to Moe, to fanservice, and to any recent shonen.
    Here's the deal, I'm the best there is. I wake up in the morning and I urinate excellence. And nobody can hang with my stuff. I'm just a big hairy American winning machine.

    I'm very humble, too.

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