Why Manga Fans Don´t go to Comic Shops? A TCJ article

[Waylaid]

First of all, I'm sorry for the horrible posts I've made, and thanks for kicking some sense into my head.

I wish to make up for that by posting this article from the Comics Journal on why manga are popular, and why fans (mostly girls) do not (and perhaps never will) frequent comics shops.

Shoujo manga -- Japanese graphic novels for teenage girls -- have caught the American comics scene flat-footed. Women represent the minority of creators in both the superhero-comics and art-comics scenes, and while there tend to be more female indy-comics fans than devotees of Marvel and DC's output, theirs is likewise very much a minority viewpoint. American comics is a boys' club. Because of this, the emergence of manga, and its attendant introduction of a wholesale tradition of comics for girls of all ages, has left many of us searching not only for the correct way to interpret it, but indeed for language sufficient to even describe the phenomenon.

[BrendaBat]

The author of that article seems to have diluded himself into believeing that shojo comics are immune to flaws (he talks about them as if they're the second coming!). Shojo comics are fun; but they can also be just as crappy and deritive as a bad superhero comic.

I think the reason a lot of manga fans (both male and female) avoid comic shops is an irrational hatred of any comic that wasn't made in Japan. Since most comic shops specialize in American comic books and have little to no manga selection, they have no reason to seek them out.

As for women specifically; I think a lot of them are afraid that they'll run into a bunch of creepy Comic Book Guys if they go near a comic shop (a valid concern; those types of shops are scary). Luckily for me, the shop I frequent is run by a very nice, not creepy guy. I go there for my Uncle Scrooge, Strangers in Paradise, Bone, and Batman fix. But I get my manga at Borders because his manga selection is pitiful

Shoujo manga -- Japanese graphic novels for teenage girls -- have caught the American comics scene flat-footed. Women represent the minority of creators in both the superhero-comics and art-comics scenes, and while there tend to be more female indy-comics fans than devotees of Marvel and DC's output, theirs is likewise very much a minority viewpoint. American comics is a boys' club. Because of this, the emergence of manga, and its attendant introduction of a wholesale tradition of comics for girls of all ages, has left many of us searching not only for the correct way to interpret it, but indeed for language sufficient to even describe the phenomenon.

The main thing that drew me to manga was the number of female artists. I've wanted to be a professional cartoonist since I was 10; but the fact that I almost never saw a woman's name in the "artist" or "creator" credit of a cartoon or comic always bothered me.

[Zechs]

I would have to agree that the one of the main reasons mangas sell so well is that it caters to the people American comics ignored. Manga is the main reason I started reading comics aside from the funnies again. I think it's great that girls have coimcs to call their own. I really love the fact that I can see girls as more than just sexy,*****y,stupid or weak side character that most women are potrayed as in most mainstream American comics. Mangas success can also be seen by the fact it offers more than just super heros. Shounen comics are selling pretty well also. IMO the reason manga is doing so well is that it gives the readers a change. Something mainstream American comics weren't doing much of.

[Hordesman]

Having read US comics regularly in high school, I can say why I've pretty much switched to manga.

1. I can pick up new ones at a bookstore anywhere.

2. 1 GN for anywhere between 8 and 10 bucks before I whip out my B&N card. There's not enough of a comparable price point with US comics.

3. Variety of subject matter.

[the Amanda]

I actually prefer going to a comic shop (New England Comics) for manga, because they have great sales... but the selection just isn't there. For some reason the local comic shops only erratically stock my favorite manga (like Case Closed), despite the fact that those manga seem to sell well and are always on display at Borders. Go figure.

Individual manga volumes also tend to be a better deal than individual American comic books. I'm not going to pay three bucks for 32 pages of American comics if I can get 150 pages of manga for seven bucks. Yeah, the pages are smaller, but they tend to cram just as much action/dialogue in each page.

The other reason that I read manga but generally not American comics is that American comics generally don't have what I want. I don't give a flip for superheroes, and, despite protests to the contrary, almost everything I see in American comics is still superheroes (I have enjoyed Vasquez stuff and Bone and would like to pick up some Disney comics, so I am mindful of the exceptions). American comics just don't have anything like Case Closed or FMA, for example (if I'm mistaken, please point those comics my way...).

[Temple Fugate]

As for women specifically; I think a lot of them are afraid that they'll run into a bunch of creepy Comic Book Guys if they go near a comic shop (a valid concern; those types of shops are scary). Luckily for me, the shop I frequent is run by a very nice, not creepy guy. I go there for my Uncle Scrooge, Strangers in Paradise, Bone, and Batman fix. But I get my manga at Borders because his manga selection is pitiful

I'm a guy, and even I avoid my comic shop on days when I know the creepy geeks are going to be there. Fortunately my friends and I are blessed with a fine shop run by reasonable people who stock quite a bit of manga. The owner and I are on a first-name basis; he's a very friendly guy to everyone. He even coaxed me into reading a few good American and manga titles I would never have noticed before. But very rarely do I see any women in the shop, and even then it's usually a punk/goth girl.

It's sad but true that the nature of comic shops in general scare many people away, either by the customers that frequent it or the owners that mismanage it or preach from a soapbox about why certain titles (that YOU'RE buying from THEM) are pieces of crap which you shouldn't be interested in. I'm glad that my local shop doesn't buy into most of the stereotypes and wish that it was the same situation in many other places that aren't so fortunate.

[Artimus Gigan]

Also apparently women tend to scare the really creepy nerds(who usualy buy the most stuff). They act like the females are ridden with some sort of disease that effects the 3 yard radius around them. Because they will completly stay in a corner or a secluded area whispering to the others on how they wish she would just hurry up and buy somthing so they can browse.

However considering that the majority of bookstores group all of the comics/TBP/ and other graphic novels in the same or neighboring isles, many of the individuals wait for a long time due to their mental phobia. The girls seem more prone to reading the entire graphic novel before they buy it.

[Lord Dalek]

Since I get all my GN goodness from Borders and Barnes & Noble, regardless of whether its manga or Frank Miller, I don't think that works.

[sKorpia]

Since most comic shops specialize in American comic books and have little to no manga selection, they have no reason to seek them out.

This is more of my reason than an irrational fear/hatred of comic book shops. I had a shop that I wanted to support when I was living in San Diego. I knew the owner and he's a great guy (very knowledgeable, good suggestions for me based off of the stuff I was already buying) so I tended to buy stuff from his store rather than get it cheaper at Mile High. He had a fair collection of manga but the small comic shops just can't compare with the rows and rows (and rows and rows) of manga that BN or Borders can stock.

I personally like a shojo/shonen mix. If you've got some fights in there with special powers but also a story about relationships (romantic, platonic, familial, or all of the above), then I'll keep coming back for more. Hey, I just described Bone in a nutshell.

I think the author does have a point with the "single creator-driven vision guiding the story" observation. The American comics I tend to follow are exactly that. I'm currently collecting Fables and Y: The Last Man because they are what feel like eventual complete stories that will begin, middle, and end with the same author, if not the same artists as well. It will be a complete work by the end and when the creator says he's done, then he's done. I mean, the only monthly Batman run I ever picked up was Loeb/Lee's Hush and that was mostly for Lee's pretty pictures rather than the story. I haven't bought a Batman monthly since and I'd rather buy complete, stand-alone Batman stories that I've heard have been worth buying than gambling every month.

[Rebecca*]

Hey, I'm a girl, and I but my manga in a comic book store, but that's because it has the biggest selection...although to be honest I haven'treally tried buying American/domestic comics, since I wouldn't know where to start.

[Zechs]

I don't go to my comic store because they no longer carry manga. They just carry cards and games like D&D.. So I buy most of my manga from the store I work at.

[LordByronius]

There are some comic shops in town that have actually integrated manga and manga-related merchandise relatively well into their stock; others, not so much. I can speak of one Tuscon store that actually marks up their manga 1 to 2 bucks. Rediculous.

A comic store that opened recently though does a great job in blending the two tastes. Their staff actually familiarizes themselves with the product, and they've even started to stock stuff like Gundam models which I've been buying religiously from them recently. Mostly the cheaper, less-articulated new kits based around SEED Destiny, though the Master/High Grade kits from Wing and SEED look mighty nice. If only I didn't mangle them with my incompetence in putting them together...

As far as actually buying manga goes, I don't. I work in a major chain bookstore, with the registers being so close to the manga section making it relatively easy for me to blow through a volume or two on a slow night.

That reminds me: buy Range Murata's "Robot" anthology RIGHT NOW. It's frickin' fantastic. The ABe piece alone is worth 20 bucks.

[Chuquita]

I'm a girl and used to go to a comic store for my manga, but said store is so far away from my house that when the regular bookstores at the mall started selling the same stuff a lot closer to where I live and at the same price, that I just get all my manga and comics there now.

Even more recent is a huge Barnes and Noble that's opened up even closer than the mall, but while they have a good selection of manga, they have very few anime titles.

[Sandoz]

I buy my manga at bookstores rather than comic shops because the bookstores have a much larger selection. The comic shops near me specialize in American comics and collectibles, and outside of a random Fruits Basket graphic novel or ancient Sailor Moon back issues, they really don't have much manga at all. It's a sharp contrast to my local Waldenbooks, which is constantly expanding its manga section and pushing other books aside.

[.Automatisch]

I buy ALL my comics in trade form, be it American or Japanese. I just like the luxury of just going into a book store, looking through a large selection, and getting a lot of story for a very low price. Like most others, I use Borders and BN.

[Gokou Ruri]

Why Manga Fans Don´t go to Comic Shops?

Because they tend to not sell any, that's why. Mine has a small section in the back room that sells hentai and other sorts of perverted things, but that's about the only Japanese thing you'll find in that store.

The other reason that I read manga but generally not American comics is that American comics generally don't have what I want. I don't give a flip for superheroes, and, despite protests to the contrary, almost everything I see in American comics is still superheroes (I have enjoyed Vasquez stuff and Bone and would like to pick up some Disney comics, so I am mindful of the exceptions). American comics just don't have anything like Case Closed or FMA, for example (if I'm mistaken, please point those comics my way...).

100 Bullets, Y: The Last Man, Out There, New Academy X, and dozens of other titles ranging from romance, comedy, action, crime drama, and supernatural. Seriously, I could turn that statement right around and say that the Japanese market is plagued by tons of Dragonball clones or grossly exaggerated action shows like Tenjo Tenge, Gantz, and Elfen Lied.

Having read US comics regularly in high school, I can say why I've pretty much switched to manga.
1. I can pick up new ones at a bookstore anywhere.
2. 1 GN for anywhere between 8 and 10 bucks before I whip out my B&N card. There's not enough of a comparable price point with US comics.
3. Variety of subject matter.

Heh, it's been the opposite for me. During the middle of high school I dropped out of reading manga because it just wasn't offering me what I wanted while America comics did (though I was reading both nation's comics at the time, I just stopped reading Japan's) Now I'm lucky if I even find one series a year I enjoy.

[I.R Joey]

How strange it is that a topic like this would pop up so soon after my brother and I were discussing this same thing.

It's odd that American comics seem to have almost abandoned the female audience (at least the big companies) and manga/anime seems to have just as many fans in both genres. I like to point out Kenshin and Naruto two shonen mangas but look at how big of an audience they have. In general I've noticed that about anime and manga comparted to American cartoons.

I also pointed out to my brother the way in which women are precieved in comics, and the way in which future comic artist are trained. Look at the many how to draw comics books. How many of them have some chapter with a name that is similar to "Draw hot babes!" I mean can't you just tell who these books are marketed at?

I think the American comic industry is in dire need of more female influence in both writing and artwork.

[MrBananagrabber]

How strange it is that a topic like this would pop up so soon after my brother and I were discussing this same thing.

It's odd that American comics seem to have almost abandoned the female audience (at least the big companies) and manga/anime seems to have just as many fans in both genres. I like to point out Kenshin and Naruto two shonen mangas but look at how big of an audience they have. In general I've noticed that about anime and manga comparted to American cartoons.

I also pointed out to my brother the way in which women are precieved in comics, and the way in which future comic artist are trained. Look at the many how to draw comics books. How many of them have some chapter with a name that is similar to "Draw hot babes!" I mean can't you just tell who these books are marketed at?

I think the American comic industry is in dire need of more female influence in both writing and artwork.

Yep, very good points. Although, I wouldn't say that women are demeaned/portrayed as sex objects moreso/solely in American comics. That sort of thing really bugs me, and I think is a problem for a lot of comics and manga. It drives me away from reading plenty of series entirely.The "How to Draw Manga" books look just as bad as the "How To Draw Hot Babes" types.

I personally don't have a lot of experience in really getting into American comics, other than reading some Sonic ones as a kid and The Sandman more recently. I've read a few random issues of Batman and X-men, but never really liked them. I prefer to read graphic novels vs. individual issues, just because it's more of a story and I read quickly. Plus, they hold up better in the long run.

I'm not a big fan of superheroes at all, so I tend to not really check out many American comics. Likewise, most shounen series don't do it for me, and neither do most shoujo, but I find a good one every once in a while. I tend to like stories that are more character driven (Kare Kano and Fruits Basket are the only two series I'm reading at the moment).

Plus, the comic shops near me have all of the issues and graphic novels in plastic cases so I can't just open them and skim through them. I can do that at a book store, so I usually go to those. You can usually tell the art style by the cover (though it isn't always the best indicator), but there's no other way to tell if a series is going to be have more sound effects than dialogue, regardless of what language it's in, without getting a look inside it. In any comic, I find the writing to be more important than the art. I mean, I like a well illustrated comic book, but I'm more willing to read a well written story with poor art than a poorly written story with great art.

Also, with ongoing series like Batman or X-men, I have trouble figuring out where to start with graphic novels, while most manga is numbered. I try to start a story from the beginning if I can, and with a lot of the American comics I see at Barnes and Noble, it's hard to tell if something is part of a larger storyline or a single stand alone.

Just my two cents.

[I.R Joey]

Yep, very good points. Although, I wouldn't say that women are demeaned/portrayed as sex objects moreso/solely in American comics. That sort of thing really bugs me, and I think is a problem for a lot of comics and manga. It drives me away from reading plenty of series entirely.The "How to Draw Manga" books look just as bad as the "How To Draw Hot Babes" types.

I personally don't have a lot of experience in really getting into American comics, other than reading some Sonic ones as a kid and The Sandman more recently. I've read a few random issues of Batman and X-men, but never really liked them. I prefer to read graphic novels vs. individual issues, just because it's more of a story and I read quickly. Plus, they hold up better in the long run.

I'm not a big fan of superheroes at all, so I tend to not really check out many American comics. Likewise, most shounen series don't do it for me, and neither do most shoujo, but I find a good one every once in a while. I tend to like stories that are more character driven (Kare Kano and Fruits Basket are the only two series I'm reading at the moment).

Plus, the comic shops near me have all of the issues and graphic novels in plastic cases so I can't just open them and skim through them. I can do that at a book store, so I usually go to those. You can usually tell the art style by the cover (though it isn't always the best indicator), but there's no other way to tell if a series is going to be have more sound effects than dialogue, regardless of what language it's in, without getting a look inside it. In any comic, I find the writing to be more important than the art. I mean, I like a well illustrated comic book, but I'm more willing to read a well written story with poor art than a poorly written story with great art.

Also, with ongoing series like Batman or X-men, I have trouble figuring out where to start with graphic novels, while most manga is numbered. I try to start a story from the beginning if I can, and with a lot of the American comics I see at Barnes and Noble, it's hard to tell if something is part of a larger storyline or a single stand alone.

Just my two cents.

You're right I didn't mean to imply that women were potrayed better or worse in either countries comics. What I simply meant to imply was that here in America it seems that pretty much any signifigantly sized "how to draw comics" books seem to have at least one section on drawing "HOT" babes. It just demonstrates to me who these things are marketed at. Where as in Manga how to draw books I've seen both how to draw Bishojo (pretty girls) and Bishonen (pretty boys).

[Gokou Ruri]

Sex sells, that's all. That's why most American AND Japanese women aren't ugly. Though I must admit I've never seen an American comic that full blown admits it's just there to make women look like sex objects (like Eiken or something).

At least women get to kick butt in American comics and aren't portayed as damsels in distress like in shonen series.