Misguided Japanophiles?

[lostrune]

Japan Today's quotable quote:

"Many Americans are attracted to Japanese pop culture because we look at Japan as a place where it's OK to like comic books and cartoons past the socially approved expiration date."

-- Patrick Macias, a writer for the San Francisco-based trade magazine Animerica. Macias, who is also the author of "Cruising the Anime City: An Otaku Guide to Neo-Tokyo," on why American teenagers love Japanese pop culture. (AFP-Jiji)


One response:

Another popular misconception...
SkatMart (Mar 11 2005 - 05:40)

...actually, most people in Japan will still think you are a dork if you like manga and anime after the age of 18.

Its like, in the US, if you are over 18 you can like, "The Simpsons" and nobody would think you were weird, but if you like "Superman: The Animated Series" after the age of 18... people will think you are a dork.

Likewise, it is socially acceptable in Japan to watch "Meitantei Conan" or "Sasae San" but not cool to watch "Gundam" after the age of 12.

VIZ (makers of Animerica) is a brilliant company, insofar as they have sold the American anime community on the idea that Japan is a mecca of social acceptance for social behavior not regularly accepted by Americans. They have made statement to the effect that the Japanese have a more liberal attitude toward homosexuality and sexual experimentation (which is true in essentially the same context that it is in the US), that all Japanese people love anime, that people that do cosplay are considered normal, or that Gangoro is massively popular even outside of Shinjuku.

Suncoast, VIZ, and the other anime companies in the US are selling "anime" as a brand name to the Western market. Complete with revisionist historical hype. Telling you that anime that barely made a blip in the Japanese market are among the most popular.

In short, Patrick's myth is designed to sell anime to Americans willing to watch scifi and read comic books, but unwilling to commit to the idea of purchasing material that will put them in the full-fledged dork categories (gamers, Trekers, etc.)

Disclaimer: I am not against anime, scifi, Star Trek, or gaming... I just realize that the marketing campaigns of VIZ, Tokyopop, and Suncoast have done a much better job of making anime seem more mainstream than Star Trek, Star Wars, and the rest.


What do you guys think? Agree or disagree? With the original quote or with the responses?

[Sprocket]

Exactly. It's the same with all the Jump mangas and their anime adaptations. You can claim they're "mature" and more "mainstream" than Western Science Fiction 'til you're blue in the face, but you're holding the minority view in society. Even the companies that make the shows and comics in Japan don't see their products as "mature". Not to say that there isn't manga aimed at adults, but I'd say it holds a similar stigma that "adult" comics hold here, namely that they're not as "adult" as they claim to be.

And yes, I am a dork. But I've come to terms with that, I suppose.

[Bunai]

i like the response.
Japan does hold censorship, and do get calls when something is show that parents or a view in general doesn't approve of.
there are a lot of people in Japan who don't even like manga or anime, and some think its embarassing to watch or have as a hobby- regardless of its contain level.

Japan is treated as the mecca of things. people mostly look at it for "fashion,comics,animation,or candy". even Japanese want people to know that its not all about that. there are places besides Tokyo.

[Ben]

even Japanese want people to know that its not all about that. there are places besides Tokyo.

KANSAI IN THE HIZZOUSE! Where my Kansai homies at?!

[Gokou Ruri]

At least this will hopefully open more people's eyes on their shows and comics. In fact, I'd go so far as to say it's worse in Japan than it is in America. I've notice it's a lot more acceptable for a 20 year old getting the newest Gotham Knights comic as opposed to a 20 year old getting the latest One Piece or Bobobobo. But mainly because the Japanese find reading comics and cartoons are childish no matter what it is, while as long as it's not Archie or something, it's pretty indifferent in America. (Everyone loves Batman, afterall.)

[Chris Wood]

KANSAI IN THE HIZZOUSE! Where my Kansai homies at?!

Yo! What up G?

I don't particularly agree with that response. Manga is undeniably more mainstream in Japan than it is here, for children and adults. Japan is a more liberal society in some areas, but very restrictive in others.

[Ben]

In fact, I'd go so far as to say it's worse in Japan than it is in America. I've notice it's a lot more acceptable for a 20 year old getting the newest Gotham Knights comic as opposed to a 20 year old getting the latest One Piece or Bobobobo.

You're right be suspicious of the claim that Japan is comic-topia, but that's going a bit too far. Yes, anyone older than high school/college-age would get weird looks for buying One Piece and anyone over 14 would probably get weird looks for buying Bo^7. But adults don't get weird looks for buying comics for their age group, like salaryman dramas or historical fiction. The American equivelants of those comic genres, on the other hand, are still the exclusive province of niche geekdom. When American 7-Elevens start stocking large numbers of weekly comic anthologies then the US will be on a par with Japan in terms of comic industry penetration. As it is we have a ways to go yet.

Where the skeptics are correct is anime. Anime in Japan is waaay more niche than manga. Everyone reads manga, but watching lots of anime makes you a nerd.

[Tash]

Likewise, it is socially acceptable in Japan to watch "Meitantei Conan" after the age of 12.

...and all is well with the world.

[Dudley]

I've seen a lot of older people read manga. And I read that those people aren't considered dorks.
It's the kind of anime you watch that will decide that.

[rubberchicken]

I will continue reading Sandman, Hellblazer, and Sin City regardless of what people say about me.

[Kenshin5000]

Despite its niche in Japan, there is no reason as to why anime could be become at least partially mainstream in America anyway. Our market doesn't have to follow the Japanese model. And I'm already sure that most anime fans in America are a bit more socially adept than those in Japan.

Case in point: Love Pillows.

[Chris Wood]

You're right be suspicious of the claim that Japan is comic-topia, but that's going a bit too far. Yes, anyone older than high school/college-age would get weird looks for buying One Piece and anyone over 14 would probably get weird looks for buying Bo^7. But adults don't get weird looks for buying comics for their age group, like salaryman dramas or historical fiction. The American equivelants of those comic genres, on the other hand, are still the exclusive province of niche geekdom. When American 7-Elevens start stocking large numbers of weekly comic anthologies then the US will be on a par with Japan in terms of comic industry penetration. As it is we have a ways to go yet.

Where the skeptics are correct is anime. Anime in Japan is waaay more niche than manga. Everyone reads manga, but watching lots of anime makes you a nerd.

That sounds pretty accurate. When manga coffee shops start popping up in the U.S., then we'll know the race is drawing close.

[MonkeyFunk]

I've been saying this for some time at other boards, and no-one ever listens to me. They always come back with "what about (insert adult anime here), eh, eh? That's not for kids, is it, eh, eh?"

[Artimus Gigan]

And people just realsied this now? I've known this for years, YEAAARRSS!!!

And still I've got assloads of Books and graphic novels....Heck even harcover 1000+ page science fiction books that I bring to read in case a class is canceled, I still get weird looks.....and I get weird looks for playing a Gameboy/DS as well...
Though to really counteract the point many cellphones have those cell-phone games which are pretty much junk when compared to the actual games released for handheld systems.....so "normal" people spend their cash on a sub-par product...


There is no Nerdcore Utopia....Iceland is nothing like it was in that one movie

[Gokou Ruri]

You're right be suspicious of the claim that Japan is comic-topia, but that's going a bit too far. Yes, anyone older than high school/college-age would get weird looks for buying One Piece and anyone over 14 would probably get weird looks for buying Bo^7. But adults don't get weird looks for buying comics for their age group, like salaryman dramas or historical fiction. The American equivelants of those comic genres, on the other hand, are still the exclusive province of niche geekdom. When American 7-Elevens start stocking large numbers of weekly comic anthologies then the US will be on a par with Japan in terms of comic industry penetration. As it is we have a ways to go yet

Well I was mainly comparing the mainstream US comics (Marvel and DC) to mainstream Japanese comics (Shonen Jump and the like) But yeah, manga is more acceptable than anime in Japan.

[Supernovametalstar]

I've seen a lot of older people read manga. And I read that those people aren't considered dorks.
It's the kind of anime you watch that will decide that.

In the past week I've seen a man on the bus reading a trade paperback of Superman (I think) and three guys wearing business suits (at least on of them was in his late to mid 40's and the other were in their 20's to 30's) on the street talking about Doomsday appearance on the latest JLU episode. And in a Borders, I saw another older guy browsing the manga section.

Of course, these people could just be anomolies
:anime:

[MonkeyFunk]

The other people at my animation course were 50+ and were big on Disney, Miyazaki et al; it goes without sayign that people at an aniamtion class will be big on cartoons, but the point is that they didn't fit the "dork" stereotype at all.

[Artimus Gigan]

The other people at my animation course were 50+ and were big on Disney, Miyazaki et al; it goes without sayign that people at an aniamtion class will be big on cartoons, but the point is that they didn't fit the "dork" stereotype at all.

The "dork" sterotype looking people are actualy the minority....they converge at conventions so when people see conventions they see alotta them because they are all concentraited in one area...

that and the costumes really stick out alot....

[Tash]

"Geek" would be a more accurate term than "Dork"... they're very diffrent.

Besides, I think that most people don't veiw Japan as a "utopia" so much as a "place where the stuff is readily avalible".

[Artimus Gigan]

"Geek" would be a more accurate term than "Dork"... they're very diffrent.

Besides, I think that most people don't veiw Japan as a "utopia" so much as a "place where the stuff is readily avalible".

Yeah but with the internet now everything is readily available, all it comes down to is proper pricing....IIRC the yen still outweighs the dollar currently, so to actualy get the edge on deals you really gotta act when the dollar outweighs the yen(which is pretty much short term because it tends to fluxuate quickly)...

not to mention you have to figure in traveling costs, living expenses, etc.