So why is it that some fans of U.S toons hate anime and vice versa?

[I.R Joey]

I never could get this, there are some people I've met that can sit down and watch a U.S toon with me, but they scoff at anime. Likewise I've seen some anime fans who say.

"Anything from the U.S stinks."

If you recal that one article I got from the IGN boards, about why this one guy doesn't like anime.

I for one consider myself a universal animation fan, IE I was flipping back and forth between Braceface, Ruroni Kenshin, PPG, and Evangelion. I don't see why some people act the way they do. Care to enlighten me?

[Failure]

Maybe it's misdirected nationalism?

My experience with people like them is that they either havent seen much anime or US animation, or have just seen the crappy ones. They make a negative first impression and refuse to accept that they could be wrong. They wont dare watching any other shows/movies from the genre, because they dont want it to compromise their pre-existing opinion. It's called cognitive dissonance, or basically closed-mindedness.

Or they just might have a haughty attitude that believes that US animation is too juvenile or simple or anime is too convoluted or something like that. Kinda like those cultured wine drinkers who wouldnt dare be seen in the same room as a can of Bud.

I dont think there's too much rationality in it. You can always find good in something.

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

Nationality and patriotism are always ugly things that pop up in this neve-rending, pointless debate of anime vs Western anime. I've always believed that despite some cultural gaps, they aren't fundamentally different in nature. The dialogue may be different in texture, but that's because the structure of the Japanese language is different than English. "Clever" english dialogue is different from "clever" Japanese dialogue. But overall, a person who likes comedic animation should find some good ones from both worlds, as is the same with romance and action.

Most people don't buy anime on DVD or VHS--so all you get of anime is what's on TV, and American TV networks always have their eyes on STRONGLY toyetic anime shows (I say "strongly" because most kid's animation is still fundamentally merchandise related--even Batman and Superman), but unlike Batman and Superman, a lot fo the toyetic shows are cheap to license andnot very story driven.

Adult anime on TV is still in its infancy, as is Western animation.

As for those "anime is better than U.S. animation," well, these are probably people who don't watch much TV and just watch strictly anime--they choose to deliberately be ignorant.

Wow, I sound like a broken record. This is probably the 20002th time I've said the same thing in pretty much the same type of thread.

[The Mad Hatter]

LLJ pretty much nailed it. People in this debate see one example of either side and assume that it's representative of everything else of that type. The thing to remember is that close to 75% of animation is lackluster or worse, no matter which type it is.

I blame Pokemon for much of the anti-anime sentiment...

[Jimmy Kustes]

My theory is this:

I watch a few animes, like Cowboy Bebop because it is free, but over all I prefer to watch American animation. Its just that I can relate better because it is my culture. Even National Film Board of Canada has most of their cartoons in English so it is funny to see those. Japanimation already removes a few aspects that can't be approached like puns and play on words, i.e. no American would read a Japanese comic strip even if it was translated.

For otaku, I think they just don't want something that doesn't cost an arm and a leg. That's why they import games that would show up in America a month or so later. If it is impossible to find it makes the niche more consentrated.

The "look" of a cartoon should not influence you to watch something that you wouldn't watch in the first place. You should not skip Rocky and Bulwinkle for Final Fantasy or visa versa.

Who knows, maybe I'm ignorent.

[joker]

i dont like anime, or what ive seen of it anyway. all that ive seen is badly written or has horible voice acting. but there is still a lot i havnt seen so i cant say i hate all of it

[Calhoun07]

I really can't identify with people who are against a particular style of animation. I have yet to see a style of animation I truly hate.

[Jeff Harris]

Originally posted by I.R Joey
I never could get this, there are some people I've met that can sit down and watch a U.S toon with me, but they scoff at anime. Likewise I've seen some anime fans who say.

"Anything from the U.S stinks."

If you recal that one article I got from the IGN boards, about why this one guy doesn't like anime.

I for one consider myself a universal animation fan, IE I was flipping back and forth between Braceface, Ruroni Kenshin, PPG, and Evangelion. I don't see why some people act the way they do. Care to enlighten me?

As do I. I run a Toonami webpage (one of the biggest outputters of televised anime in this country), and one of my best buds work for ADV Films, a leading distributor. I was raised on good ol' American toons in the 80s, and of course classic Warner Bros. and MGM shorts (Disney cartoons were very rare in my household, and still very rare today).

The otaku sees Western animation as the "gaijin devil." They see bad acting, overcommercialization, and purely juvenile plots, storylines, and characters.

The Western fanboy sees anime as "big-eyed, seizure-causing rubbish." They see bad acting, overcommercialization, and full of senseless violence and nudity that fails to help the plot.

In a way, both are right, but in another light, they're totally missing it.

Both anime and Western animation have its strong points and its flaws. In my eyes, some anime can be convoluted and often straying from the general plot. Dragon Ball Z is a textbook case of it (the Freeza saga dedicated at least 10-15 episodes to a timeline of, get this, five minutes"). Then again, some western animation are often cliched and tries very hard to sell merchandise. Two separate series, Max Steel and Action Man, fall under this category so often, you can hardly tell which show is which (and now that Mainframe is animating them both, the lines will be blurred).

Now, anime producers take risks Western animators don't attempt to. It's not that our boys and girls won't take them, it's just that their bosses breathe down their collective necks if they'll create something that won't benefit them in the long run. However, some of the risks that anime producers take aren't worth taking. I heard there's a show where the chief protagonist is a flying piece of fecal matter.

Otakus criticize Western animation because they claim that it doesn't have rich stories. Obviously they've never looked at shows from the Timm/Dini/Burnett collective nor Mainframe shows like Shadow Raiders, Beast Wars/Machines, or ReBoot (primarily the third and current seasons). It's also a shame that otakus feel that way, because quite frankly, I wouldn't consider Sailor Moon, Dragon Ball Z, nor Card Captor Sakura as shows with rich stories. Some shows do get noticed, like Gundam and Cowboy Bebop, but others, like Crest of the Stars, are virtually ignored, and this is one of the best series I know.

You see, I see anime and Western animation as one in the same. Why? Well, for starters, it's all cartoons, and second, they are all diverse. When a cartoon is good, it's good. Like people and straws, anime and Western animation all have the ability to suck equally.

It's just a matter of taste, and I just happen to love both flavors.

[Nightwing]

Originally posted by duncanzits
but over all I prefer to watch American animation. Its just that I can relate better because it is my culture. Even National Film Board of Canada has most of their cartoons in English so it is funny to see those. Japanimation already removes a few aspects that can't be approached like puns and play on words, i.e. no American would read a Japanese comic strip even if it was translated.

Bingo. My theory exactly. Japanese culture is SO different from ours, down to any detail you'd like to name. I think that's what drives people away from anime. And of course, nationalism also takes it's part as well. It's all connected.

Now, I share the view about animation that Duncanzits does, although I am a bit more tolerant these days, since I watch DBZ regularly. I just saw past the parts that were different and mentally translated them into how Americans would act/speak/etc. I really got into the characters.

[RockItShipper]

Originally posted by The Mad Hatter
I blame Pokemon for much of the anti-anime sentiment...

Well, before Pokemon... Anime was identified by occassional imported shows like "Speed Racer" and a disproportionate amount of hentai coming in...

Doesn't help that 4Kids' version of Pokemon doesn't have the voice talent of TV Tokyo's, either...

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

I don't need "clever" dialogue to entertain me. TV and movie dialogue, contrary to popular belief, is NOT the way most Americans talk. Most scripts consist of what famous screenwriter Ernest Lehman calls "repartee."

Repartee is fine in moderate doses, but it loses its cuteness if done in an ongoing TV series.

Anime dub writers, for the most part, are getting better marrying dub script with the visuals. There are still parts that sound forced, but they are beginning to sound more natural. I don't expect (or even want) "clever" anime dialogue, but I think it is possible to sound casual and natural--like a real conversation. (Just look at how we type. We're pretty awkward conversationalists sometimes)

As for looking for "realistic" or "clever" dialogue in DBZ...well, DBZ isn't the kind of show appropriate for that kind of wordplay. Uh, you should kind of expect what you ask for in a non-stop martial arts fighting show.

Overall, periods of cute dialogue are always welcome, but the problem is that a lot of shows SOLELY rely on dialogue. As such, they are a means to cover up its lack of substance and meat. Now, an anime like Cowboy Bebop has *some* periods of clunky dialogue (mostly when the characters are philosophizing, which may come off awkward in english) but overall, it's a pretty natural, straightforward dub script which I don't at all mind because the show has characters with depth and substance, and interesting plot situations. I'd rather watch this than something that's full of catchphrases and snide remarks (a list of animated shows which I shall kindly not list).

The Simpsons used to balance clever dialogue with honest conversations during its peak period. It's this balance that made the show so great. King of the Hill isn't as snappy as most animated shows out there, but it's honest and arguably has the most well-rounded characters currently on animated network TV. (Though sometimes I gripe that it turns into a talking headfest at times).

[I.R Joey]

True diffrent cultural standards and stuff.

[JustJack]

I've got a friend who, I'll say, is a pure "american" bigot. I say that, because often when he makes remarks about certain subjects...he just doesnt sound like he's kidding. Anyway, he often criticises me for watching anime. And his reasons are..

"That Japanese stuff. Stick to America!"
"You n' your PokeMon stuff.."

Good reasoning, huh? First of all, I hate Pokemon. I like a lot of the more obscure anime titles out there. But, once again, my friend thinks their "filled with funny haired queers". He's a good guy...but he's also an old fashioned strict christian. That explains some of it, I guess. Oh well..

Basically, I'm the Universal Animation guy, like many others. The only difference about anime...is that I usually have to get the good stuff in back alley's, & pray the subtitles make sense!

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

You make your friend sound like some inbred hick by the kind of dialogue you give him there...

[I.R Joey]

he does sound like a hick, patriotism is one thing, but that's just stupid. Some people are so tunnel visioned.

[JustJack]

not a hick. I'd just say close minded. Heck, he hasn't even been outside of our hometown in all his life. His whole family lives here n' everything. But still. I should sit him down & have him watch something like Gunsmith Cats. chicks..cars..takes place in chicago. He'd probably change his mind after THAT...

[NewMaxFranklin]

I think that it just boils down to weather you're open to new things or not. Some people form a conception of something/ someone/ some-place and are satisfied with it. They close their minds off to new information. That's how we get people who don't like a certain genre of film or a certain type of music, a cetain religious belief, etc.

[Samhaine]

Then there are the people that don't care where the animation came from, just that it is animation.

Luckily, my parents aren't like that. Since I never stopped watching cartoons, they've excepted that they're not only for little children and, while they scoff when they're forced to watch them, they won't yell at me for asking them to tape my programs while I'm at school.

I'm one of those people that just wants good cartoons. No, scratch that. I just want good TV/movies. Period. I don't care if it's animation or live action. I just want it to be entertaining.

And I like both anime and USA animation. I think both have lotsa entertaining qualities.

[JLU Dude]

I'd like to state for the record I like both American animation and Anime.