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Thread: Toonami Ratings

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    aegisrawks is offline Senior Member
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    Did the shows on Toonami trend on Twitter last week?

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    Quote Originally Posted by El-Hazard View Post
    The guys who run Toonami don't appear to be worried in the slightest.
    But we'll try again this week anyway.
    Nor should they be. TV ratings go up and down all the time. One week doesn't mean anything in the long run
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    Quote Originally Posted by bleachj0j View Post
    Nor should they be. TV ratings go up and down all the time. One week doesn't mean anything in the long run
    And this is exactly why Jason DeMarco stated that he wishes the ratings weren't released publicly. Fans like ourselves may think they fully understand the way TV ratings work, but unless they are actually in the business and can look at all the other factors aside from the initial numbers, we really only have a slight grasp on the subject.

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    I could not make much sense of that post, so I'll simply say I don't think it matters if a few doz OP fans voice their opinion on the show on twitter. They are not going to influence a decision. Toei will only ok OP on TOONAMI if they feel every effort to get it on tv has failed including NickToons, Vortexx, & Disney. I have seen some blood on chars on shows in Vortexx under Y7 FV & have seen similar blood on chars on the DB/Z stuff that has aired on NickToons. The presence of blood alone does not warrant PG. I don't think the OP english speaking fans who mainly follow the show via subbed ep are going to make that their determining factor as to whether they watch.

    Similarly the few doz DB/Z fans that weigh in on twitter for TOONAMI are dreaming. NickToons is airing an hr of Korra followed by DBZ Kai, Iron Man, Voltron, & DB GT against TOONAMI. If One Piece has a 1/100 chance of airing on TOONAMI, DB/Z has a 1/1000 chance.

    As easy as it is for Nick fans to market One Piece to Spongebob viewers (all 4m of them), you can make a similar argument for Disney with Jake & the Neverland Pirates. I'm sure Toei has both networks in mind & both networks have aired PG rated programming on both their flagship & sister networks. Your suggestion that most Bleach fans or Naruto fans are One Piece fans is ridiculous. Nearly all arcs of One Piece are centered around stories of vice & greed much like Spongebob ep. The arcs of Bleach & Naruto are centered around stories of world/soul society domination. Vice & greed rarely ever enter the picture. The pursuit of money is the bedrock of One PIece & it's barely an afterthought in B & N. Probably the show that best appeals on TOONAMI to One Piece fans is Bebop because bounty hunter stories are a close cousin to pirate ones.

    I'm glad we get to see the public ratings because it underscores the need for event programming on TOONAMI. The NFL start time that Sat was known ahead of time & it was clear it was going to wreak havoc on TOONAMI. That was proven by the fact that ESPN beat TOONAMI every hr that night. So why expose the series to that? When 200k less Naruto fans tune in you risk some of them not coming back the next week. It makes more sense to air movies that have no impact beyond that day instead. A Bleach, Naruto, & Bebop movie night probably does better than the series can against that kind of competition. The fans following the series can pick it up against less competition the following week. I hope DeMarco thinks about that more in 2013 when the competition gets tougher with FOX adhd. If that had been airing premiere's on NFL playoff night the damage would've been worse. This time next year it will be.

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    Saying that One Piece is more like Spongebob or Jake and the Neverland Pirates then Naruto or Bleach is like saying DBZ is like Lilo and Stitch because their both about aliens. The only one who cares about money in One Piece is Nami. The show centers around Luffy and his pursuit to be King of the Pirates and him and his crew traveling the Grand Line and fighting anyone who stands in their way, which happens every arc. Its a fighting show set in the world of pirates. Just like Naruto is a fighting show about Ninjas and Bleach about Shinigamis.
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    aegisrawks is offline Senior Member
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    Wait, while I do agree with you on almost everything, Nicktoon IS driven by nostalgia, they have DBZKai and Voltron and lots of old nicktoons...

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    Quote Originally Posted by RabidInuyashaFan View Post
    DB/Z has a 1/1000 chance
    More like a 0%, since I don't see Nicktoons dropping that licence anytime soon.

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidInuyashaFan View Post
    you can make a similar argument for Disney with Jake & the Neverland Pirates.
    One Piece will never be considered for Disney. Yeah, Nicktoons or Nickelodeon you can make an argument for. But Disney? I don't know why anyone would consider them, after the wonderful job they did with Shippuden.

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidInuyashaFan View Post
    Your suggestion that most Bleach fans or Naruto fans are One Piece fans is ridiculous. Nearly all arcs of One Piece are centered around stories of vice & greed much like Spongebob ep. The arcs of Bleach & Naruto are centered around stories of world/soul society domination. Vice & greed rarely ever enter the picture. The pursuit of money is the bedrock of One PIece & it's barely an afterthought in B & N.
    So, what you're basically saying is that most people can only enjoy watching one set of themes in their anime, and that they find other series with different themes unappealing. Just because people enjoy Bleach and Naruto doesn't mean they won't enjoy One Piece as well. If that was the case, I doubt Thundercats would be getting the amount of viewers it's getting.

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    Spongebob is at least the same demographic as One Piece even if the similarities between the shows are tenuous. Jake and the Neverland Pirates is for preschoolers. No way One Piece could survive marketed like that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by El-Hazard View Post
    The guys who run Toonami don't appear to be worried in the slightest.
    But we'll try again this week anyway.
    Considering how bad some weeks were earlier on, a medicore week doesn't concern me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HG Revolution View Post
    Spongebob is at least the same demographic as One Piece even if the similarities between the shows are tenuous. Jake and the Neverland Pirates is for preschoolers. No way One Piece could survive marketed like that.
    You're missing the point. It's about a network offering a show likely to appeal to a fan base that is already built. With Nick/NT it's Spongebob, Avatar, Korra, Panda, DB/Z, Fairly Odd Parents, Winx, Power Rangers, YGO, etc. Wtih Disney/DXD it's Jake, Sofia, Pair of Kings, Phineas, Marvel Universe, Kickin It, & Wizards. Both networks offer Toei the possibility of One Piece being aired in a PT slot more than once. All TOONAMI has to offer is a slot 1-6a on Sat night that is likely to appeal to a demog Toei has weak interest in.

    My biggest problem with the fan boy responses here is that they seem to be forgetting that by & large One Piece is simply a pirates adventure show & that genre is very popular right now. So it's natural for other networks to show some interest. Nick/NT, Disney/DXD, the Hub, Vortexx, & even Boomeraction all feature blocks where One Piece should fit in well. It's not hard to list shows currently airing on these networks that could be a part of a block containing One Piece.

    I mention Boomeraction on Boomerang because that certainly fits in with Toei working a deal with VIZ on Neon Alley for the show. It's limited exposure (less than 30m HH's) & doesn't preclude other deals on other networks. It's the kind of deal that would produce ratings that Toei can then use in bargaining with bigger networks.

    Fan boys are taking for granted that One Piece is proving very successful on Hulu, Neon Alley, & other online distribution sites but I don't. All I've ever seen in this respect is that OP is amongst the top 5 all-time anime at Hulu. But I think it would be hard for any show still producing episodes not to reach such status after it passes even 300 ep.

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    wjbraden is offline Member
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    Dude, enough with the One Piece talk, it's getting very annoying. Also stop calling people fanboys, it's quite rude. Please, stop.

  12. #912
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    I remember when this was the Toonami Ratings Thread and not the "pointless rude arguments with RabidInuyashaFan" thread.


  13. #913
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Man in Black View Post
    I remember when this was the Toonami Ratings Thread and not the "pointless rude arguments with RabidInuyashaFan" thread.
    not just that, but I've dragged myself into commenting on things not associated with ratings/viewer numbers



    As long as I'm on that topic --- I never had a previous question answered here, wondering if anybody could answer -- I can't find my message here so I'll paraphrase --


    When it comes to posting the #s here, I'd always pictures ratings as something like 0.9/3 with something like 630,000 as total household viewers or w/e, so I'm wondering why something 630,000 is the "rating" when it to me is the average amount of viewers. I don't see any 'ratings' in something like the 0.9/3 example. Just wondering about that is all.
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  14. #914
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    Quote Originally Posted by RabidInuyashaFan View Post
    You're missing the point. It's about a network offering a show likely to appeal to a fan base that is already built.

    I mention Boomeraction on Boomerang because that certainly fits in with Toei working a deal with VIZ on Neon Alley for the show. It's limited exposure (less than 30m HH's) & doesn't preclude other deals on other networks. It's the kind of deal that would produce ratings that Toei can then use in bargaining with bigger networks.

    Fan boys are taking for granted that One Piece is proving very successful on Hulu, Neon Alley, & other online distribution sites but I don't. All I've ever seen in this respect is that OP is amongst the top 5 all-time anime at Hulu. But I think it would be hard for any show still producing episodes not to reach such status after it passes even 300 ep.
    It's the #4 anime for all time on Hulu only behind Shippuden, Bleach and the original Naruto but if you check the stats for "today" "this week" and "this month" it's #3 behind only Shippuden and Bleach. I'm not quite sure what you mean by taking it for granted. Do you mean people think One Piece is more popular than it really is?

    It really doesn't make a lick of sense to say One Piece would appeal to a built-in fanbase of pre-school shows much less more so or equally to that of the fans of Naruto and Bleach. There's a reason why people call those the big 3.

    Nicktoons and Disney XD are both viable options for One Piece if Toei really wants to try marketing it to kids again but lets not forget how badly that worked out the first time and 4Kids isn't entirely to blame, many things went through Toei for approval.

    You also wont see Disney or Nick proper offering prime time to third party cartoons, not even ones that are as big in Japan as One Piece. Nicktoons and DXD would which is more than I can say for Cartoon Network, they'd throw it on in the morning even with a PG rating. Boomerang? You expect Turner to buy something new specifically to air on Boomerang? They don't do that. I'd sooner expect One Piece on daytime CN than Boomerang.

    The Hub is also a viable option but they don't air much anime so that's somewhat unprecedented. They could also potentially give it prime time and if Hasbro worked out a deal with Toei to sell One Piece toys, it would be mutually beneficial to both Hasbro and Toei.

    Toei may want it on any of these networks or the Vortexx block through Saban. We don't really know who they are talking to about One Piece right now. That said, it's still possible for Toonami. I don't count on it because Toei wants big things for One Piece and would sooner keep it off the air then settle for anything less than satisfactory to them.

    However, Toei should keep in mind how difficult it truly is to break-out on US children's television. Kids didn't buy One Piece toys the first time but that was probably because Mattel made some pretty crappy ones but that's the norm for anime license based toys, especially from Mattel. Networks are not so keen on picking up untested properties much less ones that failed once before. When it comes to third party shows they want series that have already succeeded. That's why the only anime getting airtime outside of Toonami on basic cable either have had a successful run in the US for around a decade or longer or are toyetic to a fault in hopes of repeating the success of Pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh.

    One Piece has been waiting around for one of those kids networks to pick it up for several years now. I have a hard time believing any of them are still interested in it.

    Toei should probably lower their expectations and try the Bleach approach by airing it on Toonami but like I already said, they would probably rather keep One Piece off the air than to settle so unless they have a change of heart I don't anticipate One Piece's arrival on Toonami any time soon. I'm just hoping Toei wont continue to be stubborn about this but I'm content with One Piece's situation as long as they continue to allow FUNimation to release the series uncensored in the US.

    Regardless, One Piece isn't likely to join Toonami so soon after they got Naruto. Whatever the show replacing Samurai 7 is, I don't suspect it is One Piece. As for what it is? They've done nothing but surprise me so far so I could rattle off a good 20 to 30 shows and I probably still wouldn't guess what it is. I would however like it to be Michiko and Hatchin from FUNimation. I'd also still like to see Tiger & Bunny because Neon Alley can't get that show the exposure Toonami can. Once T&B ends on Neon Alley, Viz negotiate a reasonable price for it to air on Toonami. Those are my top two picks and I'd say based on who programs Toonami Michiko stands are very good chance of airing at some point but maybe not in February.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew T. Hingson View Post
    Do you mean people think One Piece is more popular than it really is?
    I think they are over-estimating the appeal of the english dubs which is all that matters with respect to USA tv. You apparently missed the point, again. How many total ep of OP are available at Hulu? How many views does it take to reach a top 4 status on a recent or all-time basis? Obviously the more ep that are available the better the odds of that happening.

    The rest of your post amounts to going around in circles. You didn't add anything that hasn't been discussed before so I will just sum it up: anything is possible, but TOONAMI is not a probable destination for One Piece. I'll make this simple for you. If Toei had any interest in adult male viewers for One Piece, it would be airing on the Funimation Channel. They included it with VIZ's Neon Alley because that's targeted towards a more general audience of english viewers looking for english dubbed anime. It didn't change anything about their preference on tv.

    As for TOONAMI 2013, I still expect IY:FA to replace TCats, Basilisk to replace S7, & Young Justice to replace S-BT. I believe it's recent 0.66 18-49/2m tv's beats what TCats did on Sat mornings before it was canceled. I disagree with you about Naruto. From what we've heard it's not part of TOONAMI's general budget. It's a special per ep expense that has proven to be very profitable. So it's presence on the lineup should only improve the general budget. They should have enough money for the shows I've mentioned & then T&B & PS&G when they finish.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RabidInuyashaFan View Post
    I think they are over-estimating the appeal of the english dubs which is all that matters with respect to USA tv. You apparently missed the point, again. How many total ep of OP are available at Hulu? How many views does it take to reach a top 4 status on a recent or all-time basis? Obviously the more ep that are available the better the odds of that happening.

    The rest of your post amounts to going around in circles. You didn't add anything that hasn't been discussed before so I will just sum it up: anything is possible, but TOONAMI is not a probable destination for One Piece. I'll make this simple for you. If Toei had any interest in adult male viewers for One Piece, it would be airing on the Funimation Channel. They included it with VIZ's Neon Alley because that's targeted towards a more general audience of english viewers looking for english dubbed anime. It didn't change anything about their preference on tv.

    As for TOONAMI 2013, I still expect IY:FA to replace TCats, Basilisk to replace S7, & Young Justice to replace S-BT. I believe it's recent 0.66 18-49/2m tv's beats what TCats did on Sat mornings before it was canceled. I disagree with you about Naruto. From what we've heard it's not part of TOONAMI's general budget. It's a special per ep expense that has proven to be very profitable. So it's presence on the lineup should only improve the general budget. They should have enough money for the shows I've mentioned & then T&B & PS&G when they finish.
    I don't think there's a need for you to be so rude, considering that everyone else on these boards can comment without telling someone they "missed the point, again." And I'm not a mod, but considering this is the board for toonami ratings, I suggest that if you want to continue to argue this, that you make a thread about it, instead of having talk about it clog up the ratings thread.


    Quote Originally Posted by HUBTigers87 View Post

    When it comes to posting the #s here, I'd always pictures ratings as something like 0.9/3 with something like 630,000 as total household viewers or w/e, so I'm wondering why something 630,000 is the "rating" when it to me is the average amount of viewers. I don't see any 'ratings' in something like the 0.9/3 example. Just wondering about that is all.
    I don't know exactly what answer your looking for, but I'll try. The definition of the Nielsen Ratings are that they're "the audience measurement systems developed by the Nielsen Company, in an effort to determine the audience size and composition of television programming in the United States." So, really, I guess you could say that the average viewers aren't exactly the ratings themselves, but more the result of the ratings. Hope that answers your question, sort of .

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    Take your fight up with those who keep bringing OP up. I've tried to lay that to bed several times now.

    As for the ratings I will answer the question precisely. When I write that Young Justice did 0.66 18-49/2m tv's this past weekend that means it was viewed in 0.66% of 18-49 HH's. The Nielsen rating is all about competition & that means %'s. The 2m tv's means about 2 million tv sets amongst HH of age 2+ were tuned in to the show.

    There are roughly 24,000 metered residenced now in the top 100 markets & that includes about 2500 on college campuses. Non top 100 markets are only counted during sweeps months (Nov, Feb, May, Jul) & that comes from 2.5m paper diaries. The peak viewer count in America is between 285-290 million, so in non sweep months that's roughly 12k per metered HH, & in sweep months it's 116 per registered HH.

  18. #918
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    Quote Originally Posted by RabidInuyashaFan View Post
    Take your fight up with those who keep bringing OP up. I've tried to lay that to bed several times now.
    Just a suggestion, but if you really wanted to put the discussion to bed, it would probably be more effective to not discuss it even when other people bring it back up. You don't have to keep the discussion going if you don't want to and putting the blame on others bringing it up with valid points sounds pretty rude and that's already happened quite a bit in many of your responses as it is.

    Anyway, I'm not so sure that Sym-Bionic Titan is going to be replaced from the lineup. While it hasn't done as well as Thundercats ratings wise, it has still done pretty well for itself, it doesn't cost them anything to air it and it adds a bit more diversity to the lineup. They might move it to a different timeslot, but I'm not sure if they'll get rid of it after it finishes up in a few weeks. I could see Young Justice airing on Toonami though. It probably wouldn't cost them anything and add a little something new to the block. I think I'd prefer it if Young Justice could finish airing the rest of season two on Cartoon Network before moving to Toonami, but if they did get Young Justice on the lineup, then I'd be okay with that.

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    It's still probable for Toonami, I just don't anticipate it joining any time soon. Most viewers watch it in Japanese but the greatest potential for growth is with dub viewers. That's reason enough to try to get it on TV even at 1AM on a Saturday but also don't anticipate another huge series coming to the block unless they get 11PM.

    Now allow me to be a downer on your predictions.

    Raiding the already seen on IFC bin likely ends with Samurai 7. They'll probably go with something a bit less violent than Basalisk because they've been shying away from ultra violence since Deadman Wonderland ended. I'd like them to prove me wrong about that but if they do then I'd hope for something newer than Basalisk.

    Final Act still may not be in the cards because unlike Tiger & Bunny, Nura: Rise of the Yokai Clan, Viz doesn't need more exposure to sell Final Act. Because of that they don't have any need to play ball with Adult Swim even once the second DVD/BD set is available. Final Act is one of the biggest attractions for Neon Alley after all. It could very well be over a year before that airs on Toonami going by how they don't shy away from airing shows years after they made it to DVD here. It's also possible that Viz and Turner will never agree to the terms for airing it. The same could be said for any show with an established fan base or otherwise. Now as a left field pick, Buso Renkin is a adequate choice from the Viz Media backlog. That would probably be very cheap to pick up.

    They've implied on the tumblr that the next show will be "new new" as in, new to US television and new to the US anime market. FUNimation has more than a handful of brand new series that could end up replacing Samurai 7. MIchiko & Hatchin and Future Diary are two popular choices one very Bebop-esque and the other on par with Deadman Wonderland violence so both would help Toonami's reputation for lacking "mature" anime since Deadman Wonderland ended.

    Young Justice does very well with adults but as it has already aired on Boomerang recently, I get the feeling that's where the reruns will forever reside. Luckily for older fans, it will probably come to Netflix this year. Green Lantern is already confirmed for it. I don't think anyone's even gauged the interest for Young Justice from Jason and the other 5 people working on Toonami. Maybe somebody should.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RabidInuyashaFan View Post
    I think they are over-estimating the appeal of the english dubs which is all that matters with respect to USA tv. You apparently missed the point, again. How many total ep of OP are available at Hulu? How many views does it take to reach a top 4 status on a recent or all-time basis? Obviously the more ep that are available the better the odds of that happening.
    Going through the most popular TV episodes of anything on Hulu today, One Piece episode 581 is the highest ranked anime episode (at #91 for episodes in general; the next highest ranking anime episode is Shippuden 296 at #140). Going through the most popular of the week, the Shippuden ep jumps up to #83 and the previous Shippuden's at #130 but the next anime episode to rank is One Piece 580 (I kind of lost count of the exact rank; it was somewhere in the 200s and it was some scrolling before the next anime episodes, another Shippuden and then a Sword Art Online, showed up). Of the month, Shippuen 294 is the highest ranking anime at #157, then four more Shippudens rank, then the first episode of the original Naruto, another Shippuden, and then One Piece 578. And of all time, the highest ranked anime episode is the first Shippuden, then 10 later Shippuden episodes, the first Naruto, 19 more Shippudens, the first Bleach, 9 more Shippudens, the first Yu-Gi-Oh, 65 more Shippudens, Naruto 220, 5 more Shippudens, the first Yu-Gi-Oh GX, 22 more Shippudens, the first Brotherhood, 15 more Shippudens, then the first Final Act, 42 Shippudens, Yu-Gi-Oh 2, 20 Shippudens, Final Act 26, a Shippuden, the final Yu-Gi-Oh episode, 5 more Shippudens, the first Inu-Yasha, a Shippuden, Bleach 309, 3 Shippudens, Bleach 2, 3 Shippudens, 2 Narutos, 2 Shippudens, a Naurto, 2 Shippudens, and then the first One Piece (more One Piece episodes show up after a lot more Shippudens, Bleaches, Narutos, Yu-Gi-Ohs, Final Acts, FMAs, and Death Notes as well as first episodes of Nura, Dinosaur King, Sonix X, DBZ, Blue Exorcist, Ikki Tousen, Fairy Tail, Tiger and Bunny, and Speed Racer). The messages from this:

    -Shippuden beats everything on Hulu
    -One Piece on a per episode basis seems to be weaker than not just the three that regularly beat it in total views (Naruto, Shippuden, and Bleach) but also Yu-Gi-Oh, Final Act, FMA, and possibly Death Note
    -that said that would still put One Piece somewhere in the top 10 anime shows on Hulu
    -Viz shows (and oddly enough 4Kids shows) tend to do better on Hulu than FUNimation ones, probably because FUNimation's own video site hasn't always been connected to Hulu
    -One Piece is doing better than any currently airing on Japan shows on Hulu other than Shippuden

    To note, I agree with you One Piece isn't very likely for Toonami. Where I disagree is that it's likely to end up with Nick or Disney (it would be a good fit for Nick but I'm doubtful of their interest, and given how they screwed up Shippuden I doubt Disney would do a good job with it, plus the Jake and the Neverland Pirates comparison was ridiculous and while there was something to the Spongebob comparison One Piece has more in common with Naruto and Bleach than Spongebob). And also you've been awfully rude to a lot of people. Maybe we need a rude removal device installed here?
    I'm a writer at a new Boston blog: http://the-lfb.com/author/rbaron/
    I also directed this short film: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uu2ruy_z9io

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